PaperModelers.com

Go Back   PaperModelers.com > Designers Corner > Future, Current, and Past design projects > Dave Winfield's Projects

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-16-2022, 12:47 PM
airdave's Avatar
airdave airdave is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 14,246
Total Downloaded: 257.44 MB
Maj Mac P-47 - Updating my P-47 Kits again

I am currently in the process of updating the remainder of my older P47 paper model kits.
And while OrdinarySpaceNerd builds MajMac for some photos, I have decided to start with that one.

Maj Mac has never been a very good seller, but its still a favorite in my collection.
It will be the first of this batch to get updated to my 2nd Gen P47s.

I've decided to do a bit more research on the plane...to verify some of the colours and markings I used,
and I've come across a couple more photos of the aircraft and more information that I thought was interesting.

Capt. Morris W Magnuson was an American Fighter Pilot and War Hero.
He flew various aircraft including the Thunderbolt with 36th Fighter Group.
Stayed in the Air Force Reserve after the war.
Very importantly, he spent the following 40 years teaching and as a High School Administrator.

During WW2 he was shot down in March 1945, in his P47 'Maj Mac', over Germany.
He survived a number of days, fleeing from German forces, but was eventually captured and became a POW for the remainder of the War.
He was proud to recount his experiences and teach kids about patriotism and the horrors or war.

He passed away in 2010, and recounted his experiences when he recorded this amazing audio interview in 2007:
WWII Veteran Morris W. Magnuson, 2007 - YouTube
It is both interesting, powerful and emotional...I beg you to give it a listen.

I was curious as to why his P47 was named Maj Mac and have yet to find an answer to that question.
Maybe I just haven't searched far enough yet.
I'm guessing it may have been a deliberate mispronunciation of his name Mag/Mac.
Maybe "Major Mac" was what people called him? ...all speculation on my part.

if you have any more information on Maj Mac, I would appreciate you sharing.
Here are the few photos I have collected of 42-28927, and the 36th FG.
Credit to the unknown photographers.
Attached Thumbnails
Maj Mac P-47 - Updating my P-47 Kits again-p47s-field.jpg   Maj Mac P-47 - Updating my P-47 Kits again-p47s-field-02.jpg   Maj Mac P-47 - Updating my P-47 Kits again-20200202_100347.thumb.jpg.53fd315c2a390e4570eb75325c37a551.jpg   Maj Mac P-47 - Updating my P-47 Kits again-majmac-crew.jpg  
__________________
SUPPORT ME PLEASE: PaperModelShop
Or, my models at ecardmodels: Dave'sCardCreations
Reply With Quote
Google Adsense
  #2  
Old 05-16-2022, 02:55 PM
Don Boose's Avatar
Don Boose Don Boose is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Carlisle, Pennsylvania
Posts: 20,702
Total Downloaded: 424.90 MB
Glad to see the revisions and updates, as well as the historical research (even with remaining unknowns) continues.

Don
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-16-2022, 04:28 PM
airdave's Avatar
airdave airdave is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 14,246
Total Downloaded: 257.44 MB
yeah, I'm actually glad I have done this,
because not only does the 2nd Gen model have a Cockpit and Landing Gear Wells...
and the newer Metal look skin...
and quite a few Part updates...
and better Assembly Instructions...

I've also discovered a number of paint scheme and marking changes I wish to make.
Colours, position of various things, and a number of detail changes.

Plus, I've discovered the aircraft (serial) number is wrong (on my original model)!

I don't know how I did it, or when, but I put a 2 instead of a 4 in the serial.
It should be 228947 (42-28947)....whereas I had 228927 on my model!
I must have just typed the wrong number at some point, and ...
__________________
SUPPORT ME PLEASE: PaperModelShop
Or, my models at ecardmodels: Dave'sCardCreations
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-17-2022, 08:05 AM
airdave's Avatar
airdave airdave is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 14,246
Total Downloaded: 257.44 MB
So, if you haven't already found it, make sure to watch this thread:
P-47 "Maj Mac" Photoshoot Build / "Test" Build
by OrdinarySpaceNerd (lets call him OSN) who is 'test' building P47D Maj Mac for me.

...
I rushed yesterday to get the 2nd Gen Maj Mac model finished, so I could send it to OSN for building.

Creating a 2nd Gen P47 involves at least two main things:

1. Grab the original (1st Gen) kit for reference and transfer all the necessary markings and specially created artwork to my 2nd Gen kit.
Everything is applied to one of my newer 'blank' bare metal P47 templates, ...however most details have to be recreated in vector form,
since all my original artwork is bitmap (I never saved the original vectors...now I do).



2. Re-research everything!
I go back through my reference images...and web-search for new ones.
Trying not to spend as much time as the first time, I check all my artwork
against the photos and data I have, and then check the web for further evidence.


................................
So...the first thing that popped up with Maj Mac, was the Tail artwork.
I wanted to change the Yellow colour to something closer to Chrome /Signal Yellow
(which has a tendency to print too dark from Inkjet Printers *thats one reason I originally brightened the colour.)


I also wanted to correct the Tail lettering and serial number placement
But I found I had very little reference material showing the Tail clearly.
So I went looking again.

I wanted to avoid the Scale Model Forums,
because there is a tendency to copy-copy-copy inaccurate paint schemes and markings...
and sure enough, I ran into differences about how the yellow paint is applied.
I'll cover that question in my next post!@

To get a better idea of how the Tail should look, I looked for other P47s from the same group.
Note the lack of yellow paint on the Tail parts!



I eventually came across a more recently web-posted image of Maj Mac
that answered most of my questions.
I could have used this image back when I first created this model!



So now, I was able to recreate and reposition the 'Easy's Angels' lettering
and a/c number
(which, by the way, I had wrong on my 2st Gen model!!!)

And, since my 2nd Gen model has a better 'metal' skin finish,
I was able to recreate the patch of bare metal left behind the a/c numbers.

I am much happier with this overall effect.



As I said, more on the Tail paint colour in my next post.
__________________
SUPPORT ME PLEASE: PaperModelShop
Or, my models at ecardmodels: Dave'sCardCreations
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-17-2022, 09:55 AM
Don Boose's Avatar
Don Boose Don Boose is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Carlisle, Pennsylvania
Posts: 20,702
Total Downloaded: 424.90 MB
I always enjoy reading about this kind of research and experimentation. Not to mention seeing a new and improved version of a historic airplane take shape.

You are in good company with the tail number typo. I have found a few Bureau of Aeronautics Number (BuNo) errors even in the very reliable books by naval aviation historian and photographer William T. Larkins work as I have done research for Garry Gillard and my series on U.S. Navy and Marine Corps aircraft of the interwar period, now up to 37 aircraft (US Navy and USMC Between The Wars in 1/100). Fortunately, in the Larkins case, the errors are in captions to photographs that clearly show the correct BuNos.

In any event, I am closely following this thread and OSNs build.

Don
Reply With Quote
Google Adsense
  #6  
Old 05-18-2022, 09:12 AM
airdave's Avatar
airdave airdave is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 14,246
Total Downloaded: 257.44 MB
So, the next issue (to finish off the Tail section of Maj Mac)
is deciding on the colour(s) of the horizontal stabilizers/elevators.

Its not hard to find old photos showing P47 tail surfaces
and I've found a limited number of photos of Maj Mac...
but nothing that gives me a clear view of the top (or bottom) of the tail wings.



Even in B/W, you can spot colour changes and differences.
In most photos, yellow can be spotted against other colours.
But I still need to see enough of the surfaces from a decent angle to be sure.

Best thing I've come across so far is a very low quality video,
taken from a colour film reel of all the aircraft of the 36th Fighter Group
parked on the field, awaiting action.
The camera angle at one point is high, and the panning allows for a quick view (from a great distance)
of some of the P47 tails and you can spot what looks like some yellow stabilizers.

Maj Mac appears in the video, but not specifically her tail.



...
When you research pictures of an aircraft, you often end up at Scale Modelers forums where builders are showing off
their Maj Mac creations and the common cencensus is the Tail fins are all yellow.
However, as I said, this seems to be only because the previous builder did it that way,
and the previous builder before him.
A common problem with model builders and artists.
There often doesn't seem to be any real research backing it up.

Soon, I came across another modeller who didn't paint the stabilizers when he painted the rest of the Tail (yellow).
And he made a point of explaining why he went against the grain, because in his research, the 36th went from
yellow Rudder, to yellow tail fin, and that was all.

I know from other research, that generally the underside of the rear stabilizers were the same as the under-fuselage
colour...be that unpainted or a specific colour. *camouflage from the top, is usually never the same as camo from
underneath.

So, it seemed I still had to keep looking.

Anyway, jumping ahead I managed to find the info I was looking for in a aircraft book in my own collection!
What a lucky chance that was!
Maj Mac was right there, on the cover!!
I looked through the book and spotted another small photo of Maj Mac...
and when I read the adjoining text, I got lucky!
It explains exactly what I need to know.



Quote: The 36th FG gives an interesting insight into the evolution of Ninth AF colour markings.
Having fought from England and Normandy with standard P-47 markings, in the Autumn of 1944 yellow was chosen
as group colour. This was applied to part of the vertical tail, with each of the three squadrons using a
different portion. By March 1945 this had been changed so that all tail surfaces on an aircraft were painted
yellow (without obliterating the radio-call number) and squadrons were then identified by coloured nose bands.


This book regularly differentiates between upper and lower surfaces,
so I take this to mean "all" surfaces of the Tail.

The article goes on to explain the nose cowl transition from a black banded (with alternate painted cooling flaps)
to the all over squadron colour (yellow in this case) beside the black band done roughly at the same time as the Tail surfaces go all yellow).

So that helps verify the co-ordinating nose colours.

And thats why I decided to paint the entire tail - all surfaces yellow
(as you can see in the following photo)
which will also match the nose cowl.



Next up...D-Day striping and those pesky wing stripes.
__________________
SUPPORT ME PLEASE: PaperModelShop
Or, my models at ecardmodels: Dave'sCardCreations
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-21-2022, 08:44 AM
airdave's Avatar
airdave airdave is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 14,246
Total Downloaded: 257.44 MB
So the next issue was striping...
I already know about the type and placement of the black bands on all tail surfaces.
Tail stripes are standard Euro(ETO) Recognition Markings (white on drab, black on bare metal)



Unlike P-51s, that had wide bands on both horizontal stabilizers and main wings for a period,
there are no matching wing bands designated on P-47s.

But what about D-Day stripes?



Obviously all aircraft had Invasion stripes applied in June of 1944, and 9th Air Force P47s carried the same.

At first the fuselage was wrapped with the black and white stripes, as was(were?) the wings.
But in July of 1944, the upper fuselage stripes were painted over or removed, leaving only the underside striping.



I noticed the photos I have of Maj Mac, all show the underside fuselage stripes.
And most of the photos claim to be taken in 1945.

I don't have a photo taken from the right angle, so I looked very hard to see what wing striping was present.

In September of 1944, all wing (Invasion) striping was removed.
And sure enough, I was able to brighten and zoom in on one photo to verify there are no wing stripes anywhere, top or bottom.



I decided to stick with the photos I have and acknowledge the dates.

Maj Mac was shot down and lost in March of 1945, so this is how she would have appeared in February 1945,
and probably how she looked when she was lost.

__________________
SUPPORT ME PLEASE: PaperModelShop
Or, my models at ecardmodels: Dave'sCardCreations
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-26-2022, 07:18 AM
airdave's Avatar
airdave airdave is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 14,246
Total Downloaded: 257.44 MB
Our good friend John Mollison confirmed something I did not know,
that Capt. Morris W Magnuson was not shot down in Maj Mac (42-28947)
and not on Mar 16 1945.

Contrary to many online sources, and contrary to what I thought I knew,
Magnuson was shot down two days earlier, Mar 14, in another P47, serial number 42-28927.

*Note it was the same type of P47, a P-47D-28-RE,
and from the same block with almost the exact same serial...947/927.
I'm sure this led to a lot of confusion over the years.
I even found conflicting MACReports online.


MAJ MAC was obviously left without her Pilot, and on Mar 16,
a Lt Wayne Hoeck was assigned to take Maj Mac on a mission into Germany, and was also shot down.
Hoeck also bailed out, survived and was later captured by the Germans (like Magnuson).

This doesn't change anything regarding Maj Mac...or my scale model.
Its just more interesting and important historical information
and proves you should never stop hunting for the facts.
As someone said I'm the type that will "never take things on face value"
and I never just accept the general concensus.
Or in this case, the internet's concensus.

I told someone else they were completely wrong about Hoeck being in the aircraft.
I argued that they based their thinking on a weak statement by a WW2 pilot and one single B/W photo.
And while I ended up being wrong about the facts, I'm still glad I made the effort to search for more details
and eventually uncover a more substantial truth based on more information.

Now, I need to find a photo of P-47D 42-28927.
__________________
SUPPORT ME PLEASE: PaperModelShop
Or, my models at ecardmodels: Dave'sCardCreations
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-26-2022, 07:33 PM
Don Boose's Avatar
Don Boose Don Boose is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Carlisle, Pennsylvania
Posts: 20,702
Total Downloaded: 424.90 MB
Absolutely fascinating to follow the saga of your research, the history of 42-28947 and Captain Magnuson, and the refinement of your model of 42-28947. I really enjoy this stuff.

Many thanks for sharing in detail your meticulous research.

Don
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Parts of this site powered by vBulletin Mods & Addons from DragonByte Technologies Ltd. (Details)
Copyright © 2007-2023, PaperModelers.com