Paid design request SP-2H or P2V7 (from Zealot design request thread) $150-$200

[APA-168]

I am doing a P-2 Neptune, but I don't want to give up the rights, especially for the price offered, since it is bound to be a very popular model. Nothing personal, just my decision. It is about 50% complete at the moment.

[NOBI]

Any progress's pictures?

[cgutzmer]

Thats fine of course APA Me pay all at once for my price or you sell at your price and earn it over time. My goal is to build some very long term investments. Julescrafter is working on this model for me to purchase outright.
Thanks!
Chris

[paulhbell]

I wasn't sure weather to start a thread for this or not, so for now I'll just post in here.

While I think it's a good idea for Chris to set up the shop, I'm not really sure if it's a good idea for a designer to give up the rights to a model he/she designs. I know we protect the designers against copyright violations. I've reported a hell of a lot of links myself, I'd say more than a couple of hours a week (at least) scanning through the forums/sites and never had a thank you from anyone, but I not bothered about that. I just don't like this idea about giving up the rights to the model.

And before anyone says I'm being a t**t about this, I have bought a couple of models from the ecardmodels shop and bought direct from some of the designers (that are on here) before ecardmodels was set up.

If my thoughts on this conflict with ecardmodels policy, I will step down from the piracy group and won't say anything else about the rights issue. I'm sorry to be so outspoken about this, but I think it's a bad idea.

[Barry]

Let's put one thing right THANK YOU for the piracy work Paul.

I don't do commissions basically because I would be working to someone else's standards I just build what I feel like and if I think it's reasonable I will publish it. Anything for an easy life.

[JT Fox]

To quote from the home page:

Our mission:
We wish to create a community where designers can offer their products in a safe, secure manner and where customers can receive their models quickly and securely.

By buying the rights to a model your taking away the the designers ability to offer their products.

Having said that I also think it's a good idea to have the shop own the right to gain exclusive products which will increase the customer base.

Having come down firmly on both side of the fence maybe a compromise could be reached.

• 1) Offer a time scale. After 5 years the rights to the models return to the designer.
• 2) Product sales count. After a fixed number of sales the rights return to the designer. This would ensure the shop gets an appropriate return from it's investment.
• 3) Product sales count over time . After a fixed number of sales the rights return to the designer. However the rights would return to the designer after a fixed period of time. This would ensure the return of the rights eventually even if the sales are low.

Just my thoughts.

Cheers JTF

[cgutzmer]

How is it any different if someone pays anyone to design a model for them? All of fiddlers green models are designed by someone else and are owned by fiddlers green. does the fellow that owns GPM design all his models?

This is simply a way for me to get a model I want and get a goodly amount of cash into the hands of the designer all at once. This is not the only way of course. Its purely an offer to try and get a model designed faster. No one is REQUIRED to do it.

For some people its in their own personal interests to get a nice little sum at all once, for others they want the long term investment. I am not ripping anyone off or making them do something they do not want to do. A couple people have even come to me asking for this option.

Paul - thanks for the hard work, I do appreciate it as do all the designers I am sure. I hope you and JT see my point that I am not forcing anyone to give up their rights to their models, but if I am paying someone to do the work for me I should get the rights to the model shouldn't I? They of course have the rights to build it on their own instead and sell it long term both on their own and through me and this will in no way affect anything else they want to do.

JT - My purchasing the rights to specific models does not change my mission at all. They can still offer their products. I am BUYING this product so it just becomes mine like anything else I would purchase. This also doesnt prevent APA or anyone else from desgining and selling the same model.

In my opinion this allows the designer to supplement his steady income with a nice injection of short term cash. I know for a fact that Nobi designs models on commission for other people too, are they infringing on his rights?

Also this could INCREASE sales of their other models. If people come here to buy models that only I offer, they could very well pick up models from the same (or other) designers as well.

I have rambled quite enough for now, but also let me say this - I give a very good percentage to the designer for piece by piece sales. Better than most is my guess. I need to bring in more income somehow if I am going to be able to justify the time I am putting into the shop. I think its a fair trade off to pay a designer flat out for his work to get a long term investment for myself.

Thanks
Chris
p.s. feel free to continue the conversation, I want everyone to be comfortable with this....

[paulhbell]

Guys, Thanks for the 'thanks', about the anti-piracy. But I didn't post because of that.

Chris, I understand you want to buy the model, fair enough. But if you also buy the rights to the model, how can the original designer sell it him/herself on their own website. That, in theory, would mean you own the copyright to the model and we all know what arguments that causes.

I understand that you want models (for ecardmodels) to raise the funds for the shop and make a living from it. After all everbody needs to eat.

[cgutzmer]

Paul,
This is the main problem here I see. If I pay a lump sum to have a model designed for me (Ecardmodels) then shouldnt I have the exclusive rights to sell it? If I pay Nobi or anyone else to design it and turn around and allow them to sell it on their site then I have paid them to make a model for them to sell for yet more profit at my cost.

Let me reiterate that because I make this offer does not mean anyone has to take it. Nobi could turn around and design it, sell it on his site and Ecardmodels just like he does everything else he wants to sell with me. Of course its my preference to build up my own inventory of models hence my offering lump sums - I figure if a desinger is willing to take this then its in their own personal interest.

This leads me to a question. Does anyone know how it REALLY works with GPM, Halinksi, Fiddlers Green etc etc etc? I dont.... Does GPM own the model or does the person that designed the model own the model? Does Chip (FG) own the model he paid someone to design or does the designer? Can the designer just decide to sell work he designed for these companies on his own site? I am not trying to be an ass here - I just dont know these answers....

I will ask Chip how he does it... maybe he can help me.... I certainly don't want to do anything legally dubious. I would like to make sure that people whose work I sell are treated properly. I certainly don't hope any of you think I am trying to rip anyone off.
Chris

[paulhbell]

The issue with GPM, JSC, Modelik etc, are that their models are sold in book form, ecardmodel are only (as far as I know) downloadable.

I've had a look at the books I have, JSC copyright their books and give credit to the designer. Modelik have a copyright symbol with a name next to it, this could be the designer, not sure, can't read Polish. I can't find a copyright anywhere on the Halinski books that I have, they only have a warning not to copy. I haven't got any GPM books.

Selling a book don't mean the above companies have ownership/exclusive rights to the design. Different companies sell the same model.

If anything, the designers/builders of the original plane, ship, land vechicle i.e. Boeing, Lockheed own the rights to their designs.

As an example, every plastic model company have sold 1/72 spitfires, F-16, F-15 etc, do plastic companies own the rights? I don't think so.

I know card/paper (downloaded) modeling is different to plastic and books, but they will eventually (hopefully) be covered by the same copyright laws.