Frot Laffly Landship 1915 - Page 2

**rbeach84** · #11 09-13-2011, 11:39 AM

...came wheels. Wow! Well, truthfully, treads are just there to make the wheels work, aren't they? I can see it now - '" so, George, the wheels are stuck in this bloody mud. What to do? Ah, let's lay a bunch of planks in front of the wheels to keep that from happening. Sure, and how far will we get doing that? You thought 3 MPH was slow, try waiting on a bunch of guys trying to lay us planks under fire!"'

**ct ertz** · #12 09-13-2011, 02:10 PM

I think the little drawing is off a bit. this model I started should be 23 feet long but is closer to 29 feet long, and yet the doors even at this larger model are still just 2 feet wide. I may try using the photo. Do you want the touched up version with all those gun ports and the cannon?

CT

**cjwalas** · #13 09-13-2011, 02:49 PM

WooHoo! The man is on it! Very cool.
I think one of the issues is that the door is on the bay window-like side protrusions. Would those be called sponsons? That would make them a little wider on the angled section, no? But the doors do appear to be thinner than normal.
It also looks to me like the roof is slightly arched, noticeable mostly on the "bay windows" in this shot;

Frot Laffly Landship 1915-rouleau_cuirasse_paul_frot.jpg

I see also from the side plan that the two wheels are different sizes. A result of being built on a compactor, I assume;

Frot Laffly Landship 1915-frotturmellafflytank.jpg

It seems like there's a bit of a question as to what the actual armament was to be. Wikipedia says at least one machine gun in front and three in the rear? Sounds a bit odd to me, but it does look like that's how the prototype may have been set up?
As far as armament, anything will be welcome! The touched up photo doesn't seem to be practical to me with that heavier gun just sticking out the side like that, but hey, it still looks kinda cool.

Chris

**ct ertz** · #14 09-13-2011, 03:05 PM

Maybe a little more like this?

**cjwalas** · #15 09-13-2011, 04:34 PM

Definitely more like it!
Chris

**CharlieC** · #16 09-13-2011, 04:39 PM

I don't believe anyone has looked at the base vehicle for the Frot-Laffly Landship. Unless my French has withered to nothing it was based on a Laffly "Compacteur" or Road Roller. I've also seen reference to "fluted rollers" on this Landship. Found a couple of images of Laffly Road Rollers from the period - the monochrome image is from a paper presented at a 1910 conference so it's probably close to the base vehicle. The second image is a Laffly LT8 - a heavier road roller but shows the Laffly design ideas.

There seems to have been concerns among the French military about the problem of barbed wire entanglements holding up attacks. There were a number of machines designed to overcome these. I guess a converted road roller made as much sense as the other designs (see Landships II).

The proposed armament was probably going to be Hotchkiss machine guns - these were used on the Schneider CA1, St Chamond, FT and the British Mark V. The gun positions would probably be like the hemispherical shields on the Schneider CA1.

Regards,

Charlie

**ct ertz** · #17 09-13-2011, 05:08 PM

Thanks CharlieC. That helps a lot. I was not sure if this was a four wheeled thing or just what it was. These photos help a lot.
CT

**cjwalas** · #18 09-13-2011, 05:10 PM

Good info, Charlie, as always. So you think they didn't really change the basic chassis and that the landship was essentially a killer tricycle? The mind boggles.
So the wider midsection would be to accommodate the base vehicle and the raised section at each end would house the machine gunners' sections?
Chris

**ct ertz** · #19 09-13-2011, 05:46 PM

Here is a bit more. The turning radius must have been huge!

**CharlieC** · #20 09-13-2011, 05:50 PM

Judging by the engineering approach taken by the French in their early tanks they seem to have based their designs on existing vehicles like the Holt. I'd guess that Frot took the same approach to this landship - cut off anything not required and added an armoured shell. I don't know how the driver would control the device - on the original road roller the driver was at the rear of the vehicle - can't see that working on the landship.

(edit) on the drawing I think the rear wheels were separated by the frame of the road roller not a single roller. If they used the original steering of the road roller then the front roller was pivoted above the centre. This should give a reasonably manouverable vehicle - as much as the original road roller. On the original images it looks as if the roof is curved - the gun positions on the images were drawn on (early Photoshop).

Regards,

Charlie