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  #21  
Old 03-30-2022, 01:39 PM
Don Boose's Avatar
Don Boose Don Boose is offline
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Wayne - To answer your question from Post#11: I have a first edition of Friedman's U.S. Destroyers: An Illustrated Design History (Annapolis, MD: Naval Institute Press, 1982). The images are sharp. There are no images of Pope.

I also dug out John D. Alden, Flush Decks and Four Pipes, Seapower Monograph No. 2 (Annapolis, MD: Naval Institute Press, 1965). Lots of info and images of flush deckers but no images of Pope.

Theodore Roscoe, United States Destroyer Operations in World War II (Annapolis: Naval Institute Press, 1960, third reprint of 1953 edition) has no photographs of Pope, but has maps and narratives of the ABDAFLOAT battles, a dramatic pen and ink drawing of Pope and sisters at the Battle of the Java Sea, and an equally dramatic drawing of Pope sinking on 1 March 1942 while survivors row away in whaleboats being strafed by an A6M2 Zero and A6M2-N floatplane fighter.

The Java Sea drawing seems to be in error, since the fourth U.S. DD at that battle was USS Paul Jones, DD-230, not Pope, but it's still a striking image.

Incidentally, a four-stack destroyer appears frequently with lots of close ups of deck furniture and details as the "USS Douglas" in the 1944 Bing Crosbie/Betty Hutton film, "Here Come the Waves."

Don
Attached Thumbnails
1/600 USS Pope - US flush-deck destroyer-dds_battle_of_the_java_sea_fred_freeman_image_roscoe_destroyers_p96_r.jpg   1/600 USS Pope - US flush-deck destroyer-dd225_pope_sinking_420301.jpg  

Last edited by Don Boose; 03-30-2022 at 02:01 PM.
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  #22  
Old 03-30-2022, 03:10 PM
waynemac waynemac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Boose View Post
Wayne - To answer your question from Post#11: I have a first edition of Friedman's U.S. Destroyers: An Illustrated Design History (Annapolis, MD: Naval Institute Press, 1982). The images are sharp. There are no images of Pope.

Don
Don,
The 1982 printing is very hard to find, and expensive. Otherwise, I would likely have purchased one. I was curious about the recent (2021) printing, which has had some bad reviews for poor quality of the photos. The recent edition has info on destroyers built since 1982, and it is available, though still pricey. Anyway, any thoughts on the newer printing?

I recently received a copy of the Warship Perspectives on the Flush-Deckers. It has very few drawings, but a lot of photos and camo sketches. Some of the photos confirm a couple of odd armament variations. Some flush-deckers had 3"DP guns in place of the aft torpedo tubes, potentially giving them 6 x 3" DP guns, with a broadside of 4 guns.

I also found some images online of USS Hovey (DD208) and USS Long (DD209) were armed with 3 twin 4" guns. USS Stockton (DD73) also had a twin 4" mounting on its bow - apparently the other mounts were singles.
Wayne
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  #23  
Old 03-30-2022, 03:29 PM
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Wayne -

I haven't seen a copy of the Friedman reprint, so can't comment on it. The quality of images in reprints if often inferior, but the content of the text will be unchanged, so it might still be worth obtaining the later reprint.

The images available from NAVSOURCE (Destroyer Photo Index DD-225 USS POPE) of Pope taken from Exeter in February 1942 and at the time of its sinking my not be entirely adequate for the fine details, but at least gives the major elements (placement of 3-inch guns and so on) during the ABDAFLOAT actions, nicht whar?

Don
Attached Thumbnails
1/600 USS Pope - US flush-deck destroyer-dd225_pope_feb42_navsource.jpg   1/600 USS Pope - US flush-deck destroyer-uss_pope_dd225_sinking_in_china_sea_navsource.jpg  
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  #24  
Old 04-02-2022, 02:09 PM
waynemac waynemac is offline
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Don,
I found a "usable" copy of the 1982 Friedman book on the US Destroyers. It will be interesting to see when it arrives what "usable" means.

In the meantime, I revised the 3D model to include the bridge and shielded bow gun shown in the photos you sent. I also changed the prop guard to one made of card rather than wire. The modeler can always make one from rod/wire if he so chooses.

There is a memorial to USS Peary in Australia - one of the 4" guns salvaged from
the wreck. (tracesofwar.com/sights/8457/USS-Peary-Memorial.htm) In the absence of contradictory info, I take this show that at least some of the flush-deckers had not yet changed their 4" guns for 3" guns.
Wayne
Attached Thumbnails
1/600 USS Pope - US flush-deck destroyer-22.jpg   1/600 USS Pope - US flush-deck destroyer-23.jpg   1/600 USS Pope - US flush-deck destroyer-24.jpg  
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  #25  
Old 04-02-2022, 02:57 PM
Foute Man Foute Man is offline
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I think it is Friedman himself who has described the destroyers of the South-Asia fleet/squadron as the most worn out and obsolete part of the US Fleet. So in the late 1930's most of them were still in their 1920's configuration as they had been away from mainland USA since the early 1920's....
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  #26  
Old 04-03-2022, 07:41 AM
georgerutherford1861 georgerutherford1861 is offline
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Lots of great details on there, great work.

Doug
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  #27  
Old 04-08-2022, 11:11 AM
waynemac waynemac is offline
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I have the model to the point where I could color it and start a beta-build. I assumed the camo would be solid ocean gray on vertical surfaces and deck blue on horizontal surfaces.

The pics show the assembly of the frames, and of the hull bottom and the deck. The blow-up pics show the added framing for the galley deckhouse. I'll add the hull sides today.
Wayne
Attached Thumbnails
1/600 USS Pope - US flush-deck destroyer-img_6187-photo.jpg   1/600 USS Pope - US flush-deck destroyer-img_6188-photo.jpg   1/600 USS Pope - US flush-deck destroyer-img_6189-photo.jpg   1/600 USS Pope - US flush-deck destroyer-img_6190-photo.jpg   1/600 USS Pope - US flush-deck destroyer-img_6191-photo.jpg  

1/600 USS Pope - US flush-deck destroyer-img_6192-photo.jpg   1/600 USS Pope - US flush-deck destroyer-img_6193-photo.jpg  
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  #28  
Old 04-08-2022, 12:21 PM
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Don Boose Don Boose is offline
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I defer to your research, Wayne, but the NavSource image identified as Pope in February 1942 seems to show haze gray with a darker gray wave pattern painted on the side.

The model looks very good so far in any event.

Don
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  #29  
Old 04-08-2022, 04:00 PM
waynemac waynemac is offline
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Don,
Your comment sparked deeper research.

I assumed that all Asiatic Fleet ships would be painted in pretty much the same scheme - a lazy assumption. My somewhat limited research on Houston indicated that it was painted a dark gray, so I used the same for Pope. The Navsource photo you posted shows a lighter gray with what looks like a darker area near the bow and some areas toward the stern that might be part of a camo pattern. The area near the bow could also be a shadow from the bow flare. The other areas could be faded dark paint.

The Wikipedia article on USN ship camo in WW2 indicates that the official measure was a dark gray as of Jan 1941. The question is whether it was actually applied to the Asiatic Fleet flush-deckers. I have querried the author of the Wikipedia article to see if he has anything more to offer on the subject.
Wayne
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  #30  
Old 04-08-2022, 05:13 PM
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Don Boose Don Boose is offline
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I see your point about the "wavy camouflage" possibly being shadows and faded paint.

The apparent lightness of the basic color could also be caused by light reflection or film variations.

I hope you get a response from the Wiki author. If not, I am persuaded by your reasoning on choice of the standard Measure 1 scheme for Pope.

Don
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