1/600 USS Pope - US flush-deck destroyer

[Foute Man]

Here's a link to a series of articles by Alan Raven about US naval camouflage colours. Large article, probably written some time ago, so some of his findings might have been updated by research of other historians/writers.

One must also keep in mind that even when orders were given to paint a ship in a certain scheme, the crew would need the time to do so (think about the remark of the crewmember of Perth who confirmed Perth's experimental scheme and his remark that there was no opportunity to paint the hull because Perth was out of port a lot of times......

On the same website a list of WW2 paint schemes for Clemson Class DD's, but unfortunately no scheme given for Pope

I think Don refers to this image?
http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix2/0522519.jpg
Read the remarks in the caption about faded paint........

This is a photo, taken at Fremantle, Australia, between the end of february and mid april 1942, of USS Alden (DD-211), USS John D. Edwards (DD-216), USS John D. Ford (DD-228), and USS Paul Jones (DD-230): http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix2/0521120.jpg

[waynemac]

I downloaded the Wikipedia article. The color photos in it came through OK, but the paint swatches did not. So...I "snipped" the color swatches from the website, pasted them onto the appropriate pages in the downloaded article and voila - the complete article swatches and all. Its a bit over 2.6MB; if anyone wants a copy maybe I could post it here or email it.

I finished glueing the hull sides in place today. The bridge is next.
Wayne

[airdave]

My two cents?
[not a boating expert]

Shadow does not make sense from that angle, position,etc.
Wavy paint scheme doesn't make sense either.

The boat is sinking, listing badly, stern is under water.
Judging from the state of the water/waves in that photo,
I'd say the dark pattern on the Hull is a stain from the water.
An Oil stain?

One of the things thats rarely depicted in films (except for British wartime films)
is the literal oil swamp that surrounds an ailing boat like this.
Crew that jumped into the water to survive were saturated in oil.
The boat hull would show evidence of the oil on the surface of the water as it raised or rolled over.

Just my opinion.

[Don Boose]

All good points, Dave. But the image attached to your post is of a photo taken from the deck of HMS Exeter in February 1942 (Australian War Memorial photo 302704). The caption reads, "USS Pope (DD-225) underway off Surabaya in company with the British heavy cruiser HMS Exeter, shortly before her loss, circa February 1942. The AWM caption suggests this is a "local modification" of Measure 12 camouflage (which no Asiatic Fleet vessel ever carried) or a locally applied scheme. The only Asiatic Fleet destroyer that received any camouflage was Peary (DD-226), and that was using Army paint stocks. The purported "camouflage" is merely the wear and tear on a destroyer that had seen hard service and no port availability during the first three months of the war. A good lesson to not take photo captions at face value. Australian War Memorial photo 302704."

I carelessly failed to note this when I originally posted the image, but Foute Man brought it to our attention.

Your comments about oil certainly apply to the other image, of Pope sinking, which I have attached. Caption: "USS Pope (DD-225), sinking in the Java Sea, during the Japanese Dutch East Indies Campaign, 1 March 1942. Photo taken from a Japanese Navy floatplane. The photo was originally published in the magazine Maru Special #95. Robert Hurst"

Source of both images: Destroyer Photo Index DD-225 USS POPE

The Australian War Museum image with the caption referring to a camouflage scheme that the NavSource editor says is misleading is available at: PORT SIDE VIEW OF THE DESTROYER USS POPE (DD-225), SHORTLY BEFORE HER LOSS ON 1942-03-01. THE ... | Australian War Memorial

Regrettably, I do not have a copy of Maru Specials #94 and 95, Japanese Naval Operations in WWII.

I am enjoying this discussion.

Don

[airdave]

LOL
The photo I grabbed from your previous post...I assumed it was related.
The stern appears to be sinking or partially under water...?
the boat appears to be listing to the right (starboard?)...?
and there are heads in the water!...?

What are all those people doing in the water then?

[Don Boose]

We've (Wayne, Ray, Rick, Bob, Greg, Miles, and I) just now (1400 EDT) been discussing this and I am looking at an enlargement of the AWM image. IF the date of the image is correct, the ship is not sinking. The ship in the image is clearly underway and so PROBABLY not sinking (although it does look like it is slightly down at the stern). I THINK what looks like heads in the water is either debris or damage to the negative.
Wayne (or Rick) also mentioned a survivor account that says that Pope went down listing to port. The image from the Maru Special is listing to starboard. Maybe the image was reversed in the magazine. Or the survivor was mistaken.

Lots to think about. There are a lot of ifs and maybes.

Don

Added: Item of trivia: When I was a Navy ROTC midshipman at Cornell in 1958, the WWII destroyers still in service were known as "flush deckers" (I've also come across this usage in memoirs and such contemporary fictional accounts as The Caine Mutiny). So, by coincidence, the destroyers built toward the end of WWI and WWII were both "flush deckers."

[Foute Man]

Originally Posted by Don Boose

...Regrettably, I do not have a copy of Maru Specials #94 and 95, Japanese Naval Operations in WWII.
Don

Noticed this copy has just been sold on ebay only a few hours ago, anyone here is the lucky buyer?
No USS Pope in the sample pics (click on original listing to view the original sample pics)

[Don Boose]

I was the lucky buyer of Nos. 94 and 95 and hope to receive them next week.

Don

[georgerutherford1861]

Woohoo! Good and timely catch Don!

Doug

[waynemac]

More progress on the beta-build. Added bridge, aft deckhouse, searchlight tower and funnels. It is beginning to look like a flush-decker.

Following discussions here regarding colors, I will likely lighten the dark gray to simulate weathering and change the deck color to a similar faded ocean gray instead of the deck blue of my beta model.

Wayne