Having some major problems...

[airdave]

"Oh, you aren't smart enough to get it. We have all this experience and you don't, and you can't do what you want because you're too much of a simpleton".

nobody said this
...period

[lancer525]

Dave, you obviously don't get it. I'm not going to waste more time trying to explain something to you, when you've already got your mind made up. If you didn't have anything helpful to contribute in the first place, why did you even bother to post in the thread, other than to browbeat me, that is?

I've had to put up with bullies my whole life. As an adult, I choose not to put up with them whatsoever.

[RyanShort1]

lancer - I was not trying to make you feel stupid at all and am frustrated that you took my posts that way.
The way I would suggest you take my comments would be for you to not be frustrated if you find that you might need to spend more time learning a program's capabilities in order to achieve worthy results.
Airplanes are tools, too, and I'm a flight instructor. I don't think ANYONE can learn to fly well in half a day. I MIGHT be able to teach you to fly straight and level well, and do turns, climbs and descents, but in order to land, you'll need time, practice, and patience - probably 10-20 hours of it...
I think that some of these CAD programs are like this, and the better ones, even more so. There are a gillion buttons and even more menu items, and just learning to identify all of them could turn into a decently long process, not to mention learning how to use them effectively! I'd bet that you could figure out how to make a circle, square, maybe even a cube or tube rather quickly in most programs, but the mesh needed to create a hull is just going to take more time! Please don't give up! We'd like to see you succeed and finish that battleship of yours.
Also, your drafting instructor was probably working in 2D, and for that subject, he's probably right about the amount of time required to learn a tool. For 3d modeling, and even more so for our kind of modeling where we try to approximate complex mathematical 3d items that can be converted into a 3d pattern, there's a LOT more math involved and a LOT more that a program has to be able to do.

Ryan

[lancer525]

Ryan, I appreciate that you took the time to write all that, but the point is that there has to be a much more simple way to do this than I've yet seen. Delftship seems to be doing okay so far, but it's repetitive. I had the entire hull of my ship laid out in less than four hours, and after six hours have most of it faired. So there is a way.

As for your being a CFI, I have a pilot's license too. Soloed in 6.25 hours.

That drafting instructor I referred to helped write a 3-D program back in the day, and we were in fact working with a release of AutoCAD that had 3-D capabilities, so no, he wasn't referring to 2-D.

It's the constant second-guessing, addressing everything but what the original post was about, and the derisive attitudes that bothered me throughout this thread. I wish I'd never started it, because I've had to spend more time defending myself than anything else.

I know there is a better way to do this. Has to be.

And for the record, I have loaded up some 27 (28 if you count Delftship) programs in an attempt to find one that was user-friendly enough to be able to import precisely drawn graphics and assemble them into a usable format.

Any reasonably intelligent individual (and I have 2 Masters degrees and a PhD) should be able to figure out any given program that's well-written and user friendly, to do basic procedures, in less than three hours. Period. If it takes longer than that to get a basic working knowledge, then it is too specialized for certain types of operations. Notice that I did NOT say "achieve mastery" of a program. I've worked with Photoshop for about 6 years now, and I am still finding new things I can do with it. But basic operations? That should take no time at all.

I'm having some tedious progress with Delftship, and it might take a week to move all those little points around on the workspace, but I've got my plan, elevation, and frames views already in, and am working with them.

I'm getting somewhere, but I'm moving at the speed of government.

[RyanShort1]

Originally Posted by lancer525

The point is that there has to be a much more simple way to do this than I've yet seen.

I'm getting somewhere, but I'm moving at the speed of government.

I hope you find the more simple way! Let me know when you find it, 'cause I'd certainly like to not have to figure things out the hard way myself! That's mainly why I'm currently stalled on the M-18 and a few other unfinished models. I've hit a few annoyances in Sketchup that are giving me a fit, but hopefully I'll work my way out of them.
Oh, and good job getting soloed with 6 hours! Your instructor must've been good, and you must have a LOT of motivation and aptitude!

Ryan

[PaperMakeiT]

ok guys,

I believe lancer525 and all the others have had their opportunity to explain deeply their own point of view.

I suggest now to put apart useless arguments and see in detail something to put under my teeth.

lancer525, if you can, could you please upload a print-screen of your hull so far drawn? I am now curious to see how Delftship works and how your hull progresses.

[Alcides]

Originally Posted by PaperMakeiT

ok guys,
I believe lancer525 and all the others have had their opportunity to explain deeply their own point of view.

No. We tried to explain him he had to work hard to understand a program, he tell us we're wrong. I put a lot information about Blender, Did he says thanks? No.

He says he were more smart than us:

Originally Posted by lancer525

Any reasonably intelligent individual (and I have 2 Masters degrees and a PhD) should be able to figure out any given program that's well-written and user friendly, to do basic procedures, in less than three hours.

and When he told him about the time necessary, he says: no more than 3 hours. But now he accepts he is going a bit more of time:

Originally Posted by lancer525

I'm having some tedious progress with Delftship, and it might take a week to move all those little points around on the workspace, but I've got my plan, elevation, and frames views already in, and am working with them.

Now, you a moderator tell us our comments where useless because you are interested in program. Nice and balanced opinion by a moderator.

Alcides

[cgutzmer]

I am rather surprised at the way this is turning out.

lancer - you asked for help, people are trying to help. If you do not want to hear what they have to say then dont ask. Everyone has (and is entitled) to their opinon. I DO agree with you, somewhat. The basics of any program can be picked up in a few hours. However mastery cannot.

Lets make a real quick comparison withe the pilots license. You can fly a cessna (or something similar) thats great! I will never be able to fly a real plane (I can fly a mean corsair in IL2 Sturmovik though) But can you fly a jumbo jet or a Joint strike fighter? Not the same thing at all. Comparitively there is cessna software and JSF software for designing models and the learning curves are similar.

People here are trying help you as best they can with the software they know. I wouldnt expect them to drop what they know and go learn some new software to answer your question. Take their answers as the answers as THEY know it, with THEIR software and skill sets.

OK - I better step away from the keyboard now....
Chris

[lancer525]

Originally Posted by RyanShort1

I hope you find the more simple way! Let me know when you find it, 'cause I'd certainly like to not have to figure things out the hard way myself! That's mainly why I'm currently stalled on the M-18 and a few other unfinished models. I've hit a few annoyances in Sketchup that are giving me a fit, but hopefully I'll work my way out of them.
Oh, and good job getting soloed with 6 hours! Your instructor must've been good, and you must have a LOT of motivation and aptitude!

Ryan

Delftship seems to be working fairly well. The explanation for how to load lineplans, elevations and sections is straightforward and fairly simple. Do this, do that, and there you have it. Which buttons to click, what order, and step-by-step instructions are the best way to get a novice going. The major problem I have with all the others like Blender, Sketchup and such, is that the instructions are written for people who already know how to do things. Remember when you were a novice? You didn't know how to do anything. And all those people who were experts couldn't be bothered to explain the step by step instructions to get started. That's the major issue with some of the more complex programs.

PaperMakeIt: I'll get that image posted when I get home from work this evening. It's tedious, because I set up the frame mesh with too many points, but you can get an idea of where I am with the program. It's not too bad.

Chris: There's a big difference between someone offering a constructive suggestion, and browbeating somebody because they think that the individual asking doesn't want to make any investment in time. I asked for something simple, I got answers that were not related (IMO) to the question. I also got attacked for my ignorance. I tend not to like that. And I never said that I expected to be able to fly the Space Shuttle in 3 hours. What I said was, I wanted something more simple, and that a good, simple tool doesn't take years to learn. I object to people misrepresenting what I said.

Ryan: The Piper Colt is a pretty forgiving airplane. It does what you ask it to, and isn't difficult to fly. My instructor told me it was a very hard plane to fly (and it isn't, but he knew that) because you had to fly it by "feel" so I paid very close attention to how it felt. I know you know what the beginning of a stall feels like, and how ground effect feels when you're about to touch down. In a Colt, those things are as plain as the prop on the front of the plane. I suppose I had some aptitude, but I prefer to think that I just worked hard. Phil (my CFI) was an old Korean War double Ace who learned how to fly by feel. I was always in awe of him, but he was so good that I almost felt like I got it by osmosis.... Normally, the solo is the most cherished entry in a pilot's logbook. It's the one point where every pilot can say "I did this on my own from this point" but my favorite two entries are the Ford Trimotor I flew at an airshow, and the B-17G that a friend of mine got me into. Those were some really cool aircraft. Thanks for your praise, Ryan!

[elliott]

Gentlemen.
Good and valid points have been raised. Perhaps it's time for everyone to return to their corners for reflection and a short cooling off period. Let's give it a couple of days and then resume a civil discussion on all sides.