Having some major problems...

**lancer525** · #1 12-04-2009, 10:08 PM

And I have no idea how to proceed.

Part of the problem, I think, is that everyone knows what it is already, which means that for some odd reason, everybody shuts off their brains and doesn't think outside the box enough to look at the overall issue, and instead tunnel-visions on the precise project parameters.

Having said that, I have a solid shape, with defined cross sections, and I simply cannot make any of the commonly used programs do what I need them to do! I can't get any version of Pepakura to work. I can't get any version of Metasequoia to even install. Sketchup is too complex, won't allow me to import a previously drawn object, and I am unable to make it work in a scale with which I am familiar. Rhino is egregiously and outrageously expensive, and I am afraid to try Blender lest I have another total failure.

Many of you may know I am trying to do a ship hull, but I don't need to worry about lofting, displacement, hydrodynamic coefficients or any of that shipbuilding/naval architecture folderol. I am not doing a boat hull. I am doing a defined three dimensional shape, with precisely defined cross sections, and nothing more. If people can look at an airplane fuselage and see "cylinder" without thinking they need a graduate level course in aeronautical engineering, then I can look at a flattened, sectionally-tapered cylinder and see it as a ship hull after the fact.

Does anyone have any suggestions or experience with any programs, to the point that they can lead me to a good, free software package, and guide me through the process of importing a set of raster images in a precisely defined size, and merging them together into a three-dimensional framework? I used to be a draftsman, and I've taught CAD classes before, and while it may have been 20 years ago, it should be easier now, and not harder. I have no idea why I am totally unable to find a way to do what I am trying to do. I know there is an easier answer out there, and I hope I can get some guidance in finding it. So far, I've gotten some comments that have been less than satisfying. Anyone?

**nothing** · #2 12-04-2009, 10:58 PM

i personally use meta and lightwave. have you tried true space? it is free.

**nothing** · #3 12-04-2009, 10:59 PM

meta doesnt install. it is a prtable program that runs out of the folder.

**PaperMakeiT** · #4 12-05-2009, 03:05 AM

Blender has just been released in its version 2.5. They claim it is now more userfriendly.

**lancer525** · #5 12-05-2009, 09:51 AM

@Nothing: I've tried at least a dozen times to get Meta to do something, anything, and all it does is freeze up my system to the point where I have to hard boot and run a system check. I downloaded TrueSpace yesterday, but since I'm visiting out of town, I'll have to wait until I can get home to install and give it a go.

@PaperMakeiT: I seem to keep encountering programs that want to deal with meshes instead of groupings. I have a group of parts that are all based around distance from a baseline. If I can't start with importing the "spine" parts, and then importing the rib parts, orienting them to perpendicularity with the spine, and then locking the whole thing into one group, then whatever program I use will have too steep a learning curve. I used to be a pretty good CAD draftsman. I know there is an easier way to do what I want to do, but I keep getting hung up on specialized specifics that should not matter in this case. I don't know how to explain it, but it's almost like the shape itself should be irrelevant. I'll give both Blender and TrueSpace a try, and see what they can do.

**PaperMakeiT** · #6 12-05-2009, 10:45 AM

I don't know if Blender can help you in this specific way, but I know that with Blender there are some very professional animation movies. I believe Blend can have what you need. The matter is to learn how. Anyway there are tons of tutorials for every aspect.
Good luck.

**lancer525** · #7 12-05-2009, 10:56 AM

PaperMakeiT:

I'm not really all that interested in animation, and I honestly don't know how it could be of any benefit. All I'm trying to do is find a simple program that allows importation of raster graphics as finite elements, and then take those imported elements and assemble them into a discreet shape in three dimensions. I could draft one up by hand in about 5 minutes. CAD programs are supposed to make it EASIER, not harder. There is something somewhere that's getting missed. And I keep getting more and more and more frustrated at my inability to identify it.

**airdave** · #8 12-05-2009, 01:59 PM

Most 3D objects (people, vehicles, etc) in games and animation are constructed in the same manner as card models.
Thats what all these programs have been designed for...creating 3D objects.

and thats why you will get suggestions of programs that are primarily 3D object design programs (as used in animation)
Many card modelers are using the already constructed polygon objects from computer games as their starting point for 3D card models.

What computer system do you have?
If you are trying to run fairly up to date programs (even the most basic ones)
then you will need a certain level of technology...
and that might be why you are having some problems with certain programs.

[quote] I could draft one up by hand in about 5 minutes. CAD programs are supposed to make it EASIER, not harder. There is something somewhere that's getting missed. And I keep getting more and more and more frustrated at my inability to identify it.[quote]

what you are missing is the three years of learning the program...after that you will find it does what you want very easily.

there is no program that will suddenly do what you want it to do. period.

do it the old fashioned way...
design your parts and objects on paper, by scratch build, etc
then unfold your project, scan the parts into a 2d program and layout your parts for printing.
thats how I do it.

I roll and fold and glue paper until I get the object I want
and then I lay it out in its pieces and create them in CorelDraw.
add all my tabs and stuff
export them into PhotoPaint (Corel) and add colours and textures.
then put all the parts onto a page and print it.

**Alcides** · #9 12-05-2009, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lancer525

PaperMakeiT:

I'm not really all that interested in animation, and I honestly don't know how it could be of any benefit. All I'm trying to do is find a simple program that allows importation of raster graphics as finite elements, and then take those imported elements and assemble them into a discreet shape in three dimensions. I could draft one up by hand in about 5 minutes. CAD programs are supposed to make it EASIER, not harder. There is something somewhere that's getting missed. And I keep getting more and more and more frustrated at my inability to identify it.

Well, the point you need to learn the interface at least to use a 3d program, it's like to use Microsoft word. It's not natural to write the whole thing and after do the format, just you are used to.

I disagree with Airdave about the time , yes you need to put time & effort but I don't think you need 3 years, maybe 3 months.

But sometimes , I think the frustration comes from the point of view, for example for blender if you try the tutorials for blender a lot of them are for 3d modelers and animators.

If you are a user with technical background I recommend:
http://www.rab3d.com/tutorial.html

an excellent tutorial from Robert Durke about use blender for precision modeling.

You can see here the issue 11 from blender magazine:
http://www.rab3d.com/tutorial.html
It's about modeling mechanical things.

by the way if you have to import curves or profiles in blender this can be a way:
http://opendimension.org/blender_en/svg_import.php

and this are tutorials to model planes , but both uses raster graphics as background and the fuselage is modeled with cross sections:
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthre...8&page=1&pp=15

or this one:
http://www.military-meshes.com/forum...ead.php?t=2232

Edit: I'm forgot about this one: http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Do...faces/Skinning but you need some previous knowledge of blender for this one.

Regards
Alcides

**lancer525** · #10 12-05-2009, 07:02 PM

This could turn into a very interesting discussion, but I think that Dave is wrong on more than one point. No, it should not take 3 years. It shouldn't even take 3 months or even 3 weeks. It should take about 3 hours. Period.

If a software package is too user-unfriendly that it's learning curve is that steep, then it is far too specialized for something else to do what I need it to do. And I also totally and completely disagree that "there is no software out there to do what I want it to do". With all due respect to Dave, that's total bollocks. That is the whole point of software. To do what the end-user wants it to do. I want to take my raster image of the spine of my model, import it into a program, and then import each of the individual cross sections at each of the section stations and fit them to the spine, creating a three dimensional framework that can then have a skin added.

IT SHOULD NOT BE THIS DIFFICULT.

All of the software I have looked at are too complex, as there are too many other things they can do for me to identify the few things I want it to do. I cannot believe that there is not some really simple solution. I just refuse to accept that there isn't.