Laminating and tolerances

[Kurt J]

I am a rookie to paper as a media. I am going to build the Digital Navy USS Oregon. I know this is overly ambitious, but that's what I'm doing. My question is about tolerances. Roman Detyna recommends Staples Photo Supreme Matte and that's what I used. The hull formers are to be 1mm thick. The paper is 0.23mm. If I laminate it, 3 layers is 0.82mm, 4 becomes 1.13. How close do I need to be? Do I go + or -? I took my micrometer to Michaels, but could not find any combination of things that would come any closer to 1mm. When I laminate, is there any real benefit to alternating the direction of the layers, assuming there's a grain involved?

Also, if I use a spray like Scotch Super 77, is there a chance of delamination with time? I've read PVC diluted 50% is better! but with the size involved I can foresee a disaster happening.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Kurt

[SCEtoAUX]

A popular choice for laminating to make formers is to use cereal box cardboard instead of card stock or photo paper. It is usually around 0.5 mm thick. Chipboard, used to back pads of paper, is another choice.

Alternating the grain can help in reducing curling of the parts which can happen sometimes.

Generally it is better to go a little thinner because it is usually easier to add more thickness than to remove it.

[mbauer]

Originally Posted by Kurt J

I am a rookie to paper as a media. I am going to build the Digital Navy USS Oregon. I know this is overly ambitious, but that's what I'm doing. My question is about tolerances. Roman Detyna recommends Staples Photo Supreme Matte and that's what I used. The hull formers are to be 1mm thick. The paper is 0.23mm. If I laminate it, 3 layers is 0.82mm, 4 becomes 1.13. How close do I need to be? Do I go + or -? I took my micrometer to Michaels, but could not find any combination of things that would come any closer to 1mm. When I laminate, is there any real benefit to alternating the direction of the layers, assuming there's a grain involved?

Also, if I use a spray like Scotch Super 77, is there a chance of delamination with time? I've read PVC diluted 50% is better! but with the size involved I can foresee a disaster happening.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Kurt

Hi Kurt,

Great questions!

Use 3M super 77 only now. Reason is I've never had any de-laminate.

In years past have used PVA (full strength and watered down), Elmers Craft glue spray all of which have de-laminated over time.

At present been using a new type of glue called Zip Dry, it is a clear petro-chemical glue with a strong chemical smell. It works great for laminating, however: don't know if it will de-lam because only used it for a couple of months so far.

Like SCE to Aux says, better to go thinner than thicker. Been using cereal boxes myself lately and like the results!

Mike

[Wahlly]

Found a peel and stick mounting board for textile art, company name savagepaper, a 16 by 20 inch 1/16th inch board was 5 US dollars, peel off cover paper, stick plane paper parts on and cut out, it is some type of chip board. Very stiff, cut mine with scroll saw. I know lot of $ but for stiff flat formers and such it helps make up for lack of skill and experience.

[Jim Nunn]

Thickness is not much of a factor when making former's or parts for structural shapes. but if you are like me you want to be exact. 67 lb paper is 0.0083 in thick. Glue will add around 0.00015 for each layer of glue. The results for 4 layers of paper is nearly exactly 1.0 mm.

yes there is a grain to the paper but from my experience rotating the paper 90 degrees to increase the strength does not appear to make much of a difference.

As for the glue save yourself a lot of trouble just use the 3M-77 glue (Home Depot has the best price for the 3M-77) it is solvent based and will not warp the paper like PVA glue or worse yet watered down PVA. I have used this method for over 12 years and the laminated stock has never came apart.
As for cereal box stock it appears to vary in thickness and it has a tendency to delaminate. You can test this by tearing the stock in half it tends to have a very ragged edge and when cut in to small parts it just falls apart. I have to admit that I gave up on it 12 years ago and the quality of the card stock could have improved over the years.

I would think that Roman's suggestion to use Staples Photo Supreme Matte would be for the printed parts of the model using it for formers cold get to be expensive.

Jim Nunn