Wrong paper; maybe? - Page 2

**rbeach84** · #11 06-23-2010, 12:19 PM

Anyone have an opinion on Ambroid glue (aka "balsa model glue" in the orange labelled tube)?

**mbauer** · #12 06-23-2010, 12:26 PM

Hi Larry,

How hard did you press the parts together and hold them?

How much glue did you use? Too much can cause bonding issues! Only way to get a good bond using too much glue!? = Clamp together and set aside until the glue is completely dry (usually 12-24 hours).

Lazer printers use Toner. This toner is small plastic beads. They are heated up and then sprayed on the cold paper, bonding instantly. That is why it flakes off when you do bends. (Some laser printers don't have this problem.) If you were trying to glue on top of the pattern, maybe this was part of the issue.

I had troubles using Elmers "glue all" and switched to elmers "craft glue all purpose" (round bottle).

A big part of card modeling and the first really big secret to construction? Pre forming the parts. They must hold the general shape of the final part before attemping to glue them, or the glue has troubles bonding, IF the parts continually try to "spring board" apart.

Hope this helps!

Mike Bauer

**locomolarry** · #13 06-23-2010, 01:37 PM

rbeach- I used alot of Ambroid over the years to build R/C planes. I don't think it would be very good for card modeling as it cures very brittle.

Mike- As I said I have been gluing parts together before forming and clamping things flat between 2 pieces of glass with some weight on them. After reading alot of you guys comments here; I am obviously making a BIG mistake by not forming my parts first and THEN gluing. And yes, so far everything I have tried to bond has been on top of the pattern/toner. But the toner is not seperating from the paper; it is the glue bond itself that is seperating from the toner. I was not aware that the toner ink is actually a plastic. This may be part of the problem as I know from building many plastic models that PVA glues and CA do not bond well on plastics unless you scuff the surface to give the glue something to grab on to.

And, thanks to all of you; I now know to seal the sheets before cutting or building. Especially since I live in this near 100% humidty down here in Florida. Most times it is hard to even do any painting due to the humidity. I haven't been sealing the sheets first.

I use very small amounts of glue. I apply my glues with either a toothpick or t-pin.

But the stuff you guys are putting on me. WOW! I really appreciate all the help. This is the place to be if you want to learn this hobby the right way.
Thanks to All,

bagpiper · #14 06-23-2010, 03:17 PM

Hello and Welcome mate. As Don stated before these kinds of questions are great. Always lot's of good input and suggestions. I joined here in April this year and have had a stack of help from many great model masters.

Which GeeBee are you building?. You can check my signature below and follow along my exploits as a beginner/novice paper modeller. Might help you out on the build. Indeed you may be able to help me as well.

I need to get back to that but I have been just so busy with other things. :(

Good luck with the GeeBee and let's have some pictures

. We love pictures here. :D

I agree with you that the guys and Girls are A+. (when they're playing nice that is. :D)

Looking forward to seeing you around.

Cheers
Jim

**goodduck** · #15 06-23-2010, 03:19 PM

I have the same problem with laser printer. I printed most of the models at office with laser. Thinking that the laser quality is much better and faster then ink jet. It is. But, just about every models printed with laser are coming undone in about eight to ten weeks. The models that putted together with Best-Test paper cement are still holding up well. Anyway, I,m not printing laser anymore.

What about all the kits in the market, all printed in ink jet?

**locomolarry** · #16 06-23-2010, 04:36 PM

Jim(bagpiper)
I have read that entire GeeBee thread of yours and have been waiting on you to continue. It sure is looking good so far. In fact it is what inspired me to do the one I am trying to get started. And the fact that the R-1 has always been one of my favs. That plane is so ugly it is beautiful. If you know what I mean. I have sprayed another copy of the sheets with Krylon and they are drying overnite. Besises, I work at the hobby shop on Thurs, so I won't get to work on it until tom. night.
Thanks for the encouragement,

**Maltedfalcon** · #17 06-23-2010, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodduck

I have the same problem with laser printer. I printed most of the models at office with laser. Thinking that the laser quality is much better and faster then ink jet. It is. But, just about every models printed with laser are coming undone in about eight to ten weeks. The models that putted together with Best-Test paper cement are still holding up well. Anyway, I,m not printing laser anymore.

What about all the kits in the market, all printed in ink jet?

not necessarily at all,
for instance if you bought models from PMI in the past They used a laser printer for a lot of the newer models.
If your not sure - ask.

There are basically 3 kinds of printing used for printing models
1 Lithography
2 Laser
3 inkjet.

Its not a problem if you know about it.just rough up the toner with some fine sand paper (in the spots where you are gluing or make sure you are gluing paper to paper.there is no toner on the white areas, so it should glue fine.
alenes tacky glue usually has no problem holding toner, but I still rough up the toner area a bit.

before everybody goes anti-laser - you should realize in 5 years or so you probably wont be able to get an ink jet printer. all home office printers will be laser. The cost on laser technology keeps coming down, while the cost of inkjet technology has flattened.

bagpiper · #18 06-23-2010, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by locomolarry

Jim(bagpiper)
I have read that entire GeeBee thread of yours and have been waiting on you to continue. It sure is looking good so far. In fact it is what inspired me to do the one I am trying to get started. And the fact that the R-1 has always been one of my favs. That plane is so ugly it is beautiful. If you know what I mean. I have sprayed another copy of the sheets with Krylon and they are drying overnite. Besises, I work at the hobby shop on Thurs, so I won't get to work on it until tom. night.
Thanks for the encouragement,

Ohh heck!!!
Now the pressures on...:D.. no worries mate. I have almost completed the engine and will be updating the thread by Sunday at the latest. Glad it inspired you mate. I hope you saw my comment that GreMir has updated the PDF with the latest glue strips for part 7 which were missing in the original PDF.

Cheers
Jim

**locomolarry** · #19 06-23-2010, 06:56 PM

Jim.
Yep. Got the updates on mine. Oh. And no pressure sir.
Thanks,

**locomolarry** · #20 06-25-2010, 11:21 AM

Like I said; I don't plan to hyjack bagpipers build thread on the GeeBee R1, but thought that since you guys ask I would post a couple progress photos. Be nice please. This is my first and my camera isn't all that great. This is where I am at after sanding all glue contact points before gluing. I still have to burnish the seams down some more but I don't think it's too bad. This is only my third restart.
All comments and criticisms welcome,