Space Combat Phase - 1st Draft of Movement and Combat

[Blackronin]

Opportunity fire is a game concept that simulates the capacity of a unit to fire against another unit that crosses it's line of sight. It is usable with units that dwell in a stop-move-stop environment. In the case of capital ships with sensor systems it does not make sense. Capital ships know where the enemy is, so it's not a matter of opportunity fire, it's a matter of choosing what target to hit and maneuver to put it in the right weapons arc of fire.

[Blackronin]

The WW2 Japanese escort cruisers had less agility than an American BB. They were from different classes but agility wasn't a class rule. I like classes for fluff but a class must be a logical choice and not a impediment to differences between units.

[Lex]

Actually, agility (maneuverability) could be a measure of size, more agile ships are harder to hit -- it's not like you score a hit whenever you fire, but you roll a dice, depending on the number, it tells you whether you have hit your mark or not, and that's where agility comes in.

[Blackronin]

Agility will be a signature number, that gives a modifier to be hit and it will tell when a ship must be moved in the movement phase. Lower agility moves first. Hence, more agile crafts have a natural initiative.

[lehcyfer]

I would not mess with agility as ability to fire. For me it's simply maneouverability - large ships are less agile than small ships so can evade less effectively. I'd drop the agility as a number and instead connect it with the class of ship (with possible room for maneuver by retrofits or other fluff). Movement can be determined by class and it's easier to follow than to have to check the numbers - move ships beginning from fighters and ending on capital ships (with the retrofit exceptions) - it's logical and easy to remember.

[lehcyfer]

AOO can have nothing with the agility - simply only the ships that didn't attack in it's turn can make AOO.

[Blackronin]

Strategy necessity. To know where your enemy is and it's firing arc positions.
More agile ships will have the advantage to know were more lumbering ships will be. If fire is simultaneous I want to position myself in a good place to fire my best weapons and to guard myself of enemy fire. So...

Why do you want fighters to fire first?
Why not having a bigger ship (thus a bigger class), all engines that is more agile than a smaller ship? Why should we restring our possibility to grow rules with class-bid rules when we can have a number that give us a wider scope?

Though I think that we may drop the fire modifier for now.

[lehcyfer]

I'm against simultaneous fire - I can agree to returning fire, but no everyone shooting to anyone. AOO for ships that didn't attacked yet simulates gunmen ready at the reloaded guns.

I talk about moving lighter classes first, not shoot first - they come first to make enemy use up the AOO and to save the bigger ships from attack - just like in real fleet where light ships create cover for heavy ones.

Fire should be done one ship at a time (with the returning fire) and damage applied immediately on both sides - then next ship to the last one attacking. Agility has nothing to do with it. Playability has a lot to do with it.

[Blackronin]

We are talking about high tech weapons. There aren't gunmen reloading anything. We are talking of fire solutions and using the more agile ships to keep enemy off his toes.

A fleet admiral may decide to concentrate fire in a enemy ship and an individual ship will not disobey that order just because an enemy vessel is firing against her.

I move - I fire, you move - you fire is a bad concept for a game, even if is tweaked with over watch and Opportunity fire.

A light ship covering a heavier ship doesn't mean that she can't move after the less agile ships. That's the reason for moving first all ships and then firing all ships.

[lehcyfer]

Try to play simultaneously tennis - by both players playing their balls at once. This is unnatural - humans have limited capacity for doing things simultaneously. On a real battlefield there are thousands of people making decisions - noone can simulate it in a tabletop game with two players - it is necessary to take into account human psyche, and for thousand of years people preferred the I hit - you hit back method.

Howgh.

Chris what is your opinion?