Space Combat Phase - Turn Sequence

[Blackronin]

I already wrote this somewhere.

Movement phase: All ships move. Movement is made by agility. Less agile ships move first. If two opposing ships have the same agility, the ship with the best captain decides who moves first. When all the ships in the table have moved, fighters move by agility. When two fighter squadrons have the same agility, toss a die or the player who won the initiative will decide who moves first.

It is not. Ships fire and make damage. Damage is done to ship, counters are put near the ship but only at the end phase they are put over the ship base.

[lehcyfer]

Well, I oppose this way of playing - maybe it's realistic but not intuitive. Players expect turn-based game and it's not wise to make them uncomfortable. I for example am extremely uncomfortable thinking about playing this way. You play the ball, your opponent returns it - not both players play their balls at once. You eat your cake one at a time, not whole table at once and checking afterwards if you throw up.

My vision follows natural for tabletop miniature games sequence of turns - me -> you -> me -> you, not me,you -> me,you:

All ships of the player who's turn it is move. All ships that didn't fire in their turn can make AAO. Player who's turn it is can make attacks with any ships he wants in any order he sees fit - the attacked ships can return fire (once) - the damage is applied immediately to both attacked and returning fire ship - it can be shown by marbles representing points of damage inflicted, but immediately when the damage pass through half structural points the ship suffers critical damage (roll on critical damage table), and when the damage equals number of structural points the ship is destroyed (roll on the destruction table) - in case of explosion the damages are immediately applied to ships around.

[JT Fox]

Originally Posted by Blackronin

It's in the movement phase that the game is decided, unless one of the players is a lucky roller. But if the game is decided by lucky rollers than its a game that people will not want to keep playing except maybe... the lucky rollers.

If we go with a 2 x 6 sided die then you can replace these with a pack cards, (some cards removed). Each player draws from their own pack. It guaranties each payer will get a 2, 12 and average 7.

Cheers JTF

[Blackronin]

Originally Posted by lehcyfer

Well, I oppose this way of playing - maybe it's realistic but not intuitive. Players expect turn-based game and it's not wise to make them uncomfortable. I for example am extremely uncomfortable thinking about playing this way. You play the ball, your opponent returns it - not both players play their balls at once. You eat your cake one at a time, not whole table at once and checking afterwards if you throw up.

I can't understand your image. I've played hundreds of different games, some with individual turns, some with phase-by-phase turns, some with the turn being played by everybody at exactly the same time and some with no turn at all (chip drawn turn). No throw up what-so-ever.

Originally Posted by lehcyfer

My vision follows natural for tabletop miniature games sequence of turns - me -> you -> me -> you, not me,you -> me,you:

All ships of the player who's turn it is move. All ships that didn't fire in their turn can make AAO. Player who's turn it is can make attacks with any ships he wants in any order he sees fit - the attacked ships can return fire (once) - the damage is applied immediately to both attacked and returning fire ship - it can be shown by marbles representing points of damage inflicted, but immediately when the damage pass through half structural points the ship suffers critical damage (roll on critical damage table), and when the damage equals number of structural points the ship is destroyed (roll on the destruction table) - in case of explosion the damages are immediately applied to ships around.

I think that the way you want the turn is unbalanced and a very strange way to make it smooth and clean. Example:

Three ships from the active player fire against a ship from the passive player. He can fire back. He a) must fire against the first one? b) He can wait and then choose? c) If he waits and is destroyed he can't fire anymore? d) So he can wait until the end of the enemy turn to decide what ship he will fire against? Messy.

[Blackronin]

Originally Posted by JT Fox

If we go with a 2 x 6 sided die then you can replace these with a pack cards, (some cards removed). Each player draws from their own pack. It guaranties each payer will get a 2, 12 and average 7.

Cheers JTF

But I really like the chance. I wasn't complaining about lady luck. It happens, we all know about it. What I want is to create a system that has more to do with playing well than chance. I don't want chess on one side and I don't want risk on the other side.

[JT Fox]

My view on turn sequence has 3 options.

For the second phase of the battle, which is interceptor/fighter vs dropship/escort or put it another way, single ship vs single ship.

Option one:
Simultaneous movement. Using charts it allows the players to take turns making part movements until all movement is complete. It's a great system and the best balanced but it can be very slow.

Option two:
Blind movement with initiative. All moves are plotted in advance for all craft. However when movement starts a player can claim initiative for one of his craft over another players craft. The disadvantaged craft is moved it's pre-plotted move. The second craft must track the first maintaining advantage. When these type of moves are complete all other plotted moves are taken. This give a real sense of dog fighting but take a lot of paperwork to plot moves.

Option 3:
Conduct and initiative test based on set criteria. All ships are scored. the lowest score ship moves first and so on until the highest scoring ship moves last. An alternative to this is to give the highest scoring ship the option to move. If he does not take it then the choice goes to the second highest ship and so on. If nobody chooses to move then the lowest player moves. After someone moves you start at the top again. This can be a bit simple for some but does allow for quick game play.

My opinion on combat is simple. If during you movement turn a target presents itself then shoot at it. The initiative rules or better movement skills will ensure the better player gets first shot.

Hope all that makes sense.

Cheers JTF

[JT Fox]

Originally Posted by Blackronin

But I really like the chance. I wasn't complaining about lady luck. It happens, we all know about it. What I want is to create a system that has more to do with playing well than chance. I don't want chess on one side and I don't want risk on the other side.

It's just another option. Lady luck is still there as you don't know when you will get you 2 or 12. It just means at the end of the game one side can't complain about rolling double 1 all the time.

Cheers JTF

[Blackronin]

But it will complain about the way cards were flushed, that if in that particular roll he had that card when it was important and so on and so on...

Bismark hit the hood with one single lucky shot and sank it. That's Lady Luck. Not all that Lady to him because he was found by luck and off it went.

[lehcyfer]

@Blackronin:

Three ships from the active player fire against a ship from the passive player. He can fire back. He a) must fire against the first one? b) He can wait and then choose? c) If he waits and is destroyed he can't fire anymore? d) So he can wait until the end of the enemy turn to decide what ship he will fire against? Messy.

It can return fire to the first ship that fires to it or wait for another to open fire - but if he's destroyed or crippled with the first attack he may not be able to return fire to second ship.

@JTFox:
Slow is unacceptable. Establishing movement through initiative comparison is slow. Moving ships according to classes is fast. Enough said...

[Blackronin]

Originally Posted by lehcyfer

@Blackronin:


It can return fire to the first ship that fires to it or wait for another to open fire - but if he's destroyed or crippled with the first attack he may not be able to return fire to second ship.

That implies lot of time during a game turn and it is a very unrealistic rule. Any player with some experience in space combat games will tell you that.

Originally Posted by lehcyfer

@JTFox:
Slow is unacceptable. Establishing movement through initiative comparison is slow. Moving ships according to classes is fast. Enough said...

Slow is in comparison with fighters, not really slow. Moving ships according to class is as fast as moving ships according to agility, with agility being a broader approach.