What units are needed for each race?

[Blackronin]

This is exactly what I was thinking about, Michael. Fantastic.

[thehaggard]

I will be busy the next couple of days... so not sure when I will get a skinned version up for people to try.

Thanks all,
Michael The Haggard

[cgutzmer]

OK - Haggard is right on the money here. But so are a couple others... so let me say it again.

ALL races - every single one without exception in all cases without a doubt WILL have access to all the core vehicles that will ship with the paid core version of the game(s). This is so that anyone can buy the game and just play it with any race they want to use. I am not going to force people to buy additional items to play the core game.

However ALL races, every single one without fail will ALSO have race specific units. A one for one trade with the core units. The race specific units will always be a slight (or maybe significant in certain cases) upgrade to the core units. This is to give the game more depth and expandability.

In this fashion customers can buy just a new race and play with the core units - different races will get different pluses and minuses to the core units to give more strategy thought. I also expect that people that like the game will want to upgrade to non core units for a more fully fleshed out game.

[Blackronin]

I understand what you want and why, Chris.
What I don't understand is the need of it.
I know that I'm a bother with this, but let me expand my thoughts:

We have a core game system composed of three games.
In each of the game rules we'll add enough minis for people start playing immediately. We'll speak generically about the universe and we'll put the ships of two races (one Human and one Alien), always the same races in the 3 rulebooks so people can start playing. We will not put all the units that race can use, only the basic ones.
In future expansions we'll add more races and models.

Why limit immediately our universe by creating a rationalization to why the hell two alien races that meet each other and start shooting away should use the same units?

And if we work on having two showcase races, why not go along and those races being those in the core books?

And finally, if we are making different aspects and philosophies for each race, why give them access to the same units and vehicles, less to say infantry? If the Hecate are bug like, it will me strange to play with a humanoid squad.

I don't find that a little more effort in creating two distinct factions in the core book will endanger or weaken our product, in fact much the opposite.

For the Deep Space Game starting composition we'll need for each faction:

1 Cruiser
1 Destroyer
1 Freighter
1 Squadron

Eight models in 2D, 2,5D and 3D.

Is it too much?

[cgutzmer]

A few reasons... not everyone is into building models and just want something they can do out of box. This does not limit anything at all. Rather is allows more freedom in that a player can pick up an expansion race and use the same core models they have already printed with a new race with different abilities. Then if/when they like the race they can buy the expansion units.

Since I already agree with you on having three DIFFERENT games in the core Cosmos in Conflict Universe that can also be played together I would hope the basic game would ship with more than 4 units. A game that would be played with only four units sounds rather boring to me

However I also see (after some thought) what you mean by limiting. Its probably my one for one statement. I think I will drop that premise altogether. We can design replacement units for each race but also design unique (approved in gameplay of course) units. that makes the most sense from any standpoint.

How about this.... we have a couple versions of the game for outright sale. A basic game that comes with the core units (5-7 units) that are basic and can be used to play a basic game of Deep Space Confict (Name To be determined) these units can be played with any race as well for slight variation

second version that will be the same but include race specific ships as well. it will be cheaper than buying the units individually but will allow for much higher initial game play flexibility.

I will not change my mind on including core units that can be played across all races. Customers can decide for themselves if they wish to use these or purchase the race specific units.

[Blackronin]

Chris:

As I told you, I understand what you mean and I can agree with the logic of it.

I think that I didn't make myself understand and that's my fault.

Let's forget everything else.
We have a game.
Two people play that game.
If you buy that game you want to have another person to play with. With different units so that it can be recognizable who is who. You can do it with colors, or you can do it with different forms.
You can play any race that you choose with these two groups of units.
But our universe states that these are X and Y, if you want to go with the flow of our universe.

Then we add more units for these two races X and Y and new races Z, W, etc.

What I'm saying is that when you buy the core game, you receive models for two different sides. If you just want to play with those and home made variations of those, its OK, there you have it. If you want to add more, then we also have more of those (race X and Y) and new races with different models.

I'm not denying your solution, I'm just channeling it for Universe Integrity. A little more work in the beginning, much less work as our universe expands.

[cgutzmer]

ARGH! You are so fast i cant catch up on the other posts

I do see what you are saying and I do appreciate the back and forth talk. This is what makes a good end product.

I can possibly go with this solution IF every race ALWAYS has a unit with similar capabilities as every other race at its base. Statistics will of course vary a bit but every race will REQUIRE the basic units for playability. This ideaology will also allow for race specific strong (and ideally) weaker units to be estabilshed right off the bat to induce different strategies for different races.

For instance every race will have at its base:
Cruiser
Destroyer
Heavy Freighter
Freighter
Fast attack fighter
Heavy Fighter

For the gutzmerites the cruiser might be comparitively weak but the fast attack fighter exceptionally well armed

For the Roninites their destroyers might be exceptionally agile while the cruisers have weak armor/shields

All races would be reuired to have each of these ships (name would of course be different at times but the ship would be comparable) my examples above are simplistic of course and not truly representative

each race in addition might have one unique unit (maybe 2)
the gutzermites might have a heavily shielded carrier with poor weapons of its own to accomodate more of their good fighters

The roninites might have an ultra cheap frigate as an extra ship of the line

thoughts?

[Blackronin]

That is exactly what I meant. I rest my case on this.

[cgutzmer]

I concur and we are agreed - I shall forward this particular post on to the haggard (he doesnt like forums so I attempt to keep him updated)

I will also clean it up a bit and post it in the models section

[Lex]

Go for it Chris, I call this part set in stone, isn't it?