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  #21  
Old 06-20-2021, 11:26 AM
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cgutzmer cgutzmer is offline
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Sorry for the late reply. I was on vacation and driving back from florida. I have temporarily suspended sales of this kit and others while I determine ownership. The model in my sales package is most definitely the same as Serg3t. I am sorry I was not aware of this situation. I will check to see how many have been sold (only a couple) and will get the funds sent over to the designer. Thank you for making me aware of the situation.
Chris
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  #22  
Old 06-23-2021, 03:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anubhavmitra View Post
No Sergey I sent Chris the wrong file, I designed a red jet and red funnel ferries my self , but yes I admit I used your pictures as they were of the same type of ferry, please forgive me for that.����

This is not a very clever thing to do, don't you think so? If I were to design my own model for commercial purposes, I certainly would use my own pictures and cover to distinguish my work from the work of other designers....

So I'm actually not buying that story

Did you happen to upload some containership models in 1:1250 to Ecardmodels? A few weeks ago I was about to purchase those models, but I noticed some simularities (coverimage and the modelnames) with models that were offered for free here in the downloadsection. So I did not buy them.......and I just noticed Ecardmodels stopped selling them
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  #23  
Old 06-23-2021, 09:45 AM
anubhavmitra anubhavmitra is offline
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You might think I made up this story, but I actually did not, I took his picture because chris wouldn't sell them without a test built which I cant do for obvious reasons. I designed a model which is of red jet 7 not red jet 4 I took the 3d model from cg trader and I have written permission from designer. But by a coincidence my computer stopped working today, dont believe me?
I have pictures
If I wanted to carry out piracy I would hav run away from the forum by know and do you think that I would be that foolish to take papermodel from this forum and sell it via another member of this forum?
I hate piracy, I am not another Alice papermodels
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  #24  
Old 06-23-2021, 10:15 AM
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airdave airdave is offline
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I have no opinion on who designed either of these models, I am not pointing fingers at anyone.

But I do have an opinion on designing and selling a model, so this is for any designer...

1. If you can design a model, then you can design a cover. Your own cover.
It takes the same effort and skills and usually, the same software.
But if you don't have the software, there are free graphics creation programs out there, so no excuse.
ecardmodels also provides a basic cover template if you're too lazy to create your own...you need only slap a photo on and type a name for your model.

2. If you design a model, it must be test built.
(unless its just a repaint and theres proof of test build not affected by the repaint...although even repaints need test builds to guaranty artwork alignment)
Either test build it yourself (recommended because its invaluable experience)
or get a trusted modeler to test build it for you.
This is a "must do" and I would personally not accept a model into my shop if it wasn't test built.

3. Test building also allows you to take photos of the finished model which you can use on your cover and for the store listing.
** Taking photos these days is not beyond anyone's skills. 99% of people have a phone capable of taking photos.
Maybe not great photos, but its easy to learn a few photo basics from places like youtube.
If you don't have a camera, your neighbour or a friend will...and if you have your model test built, your builder will no doubt have a camera.


4. And if you use other people's ideas, copy their style and methods, even copy parts of their templates...its all okay,
as long as you get the required permissions to do so and make an effort to introduce as much originality as possible into your new design.
There are only so many way to make a box from paper and you will inevitably copy someone else's efforts, but its not hard to put in the effort to make it original in some way.
Just changing the livery or markings on someone else's design is not "original" and will require express permission from the original designer to do so (if you plan on redistributing it).

There is absolutely no excuse not to do any of these things if you wish to design and sell your own model.
I would not sell your model if you refuse to follow any of these steps.
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  #25  
Old 06-23-2021, 10:29 AM
anubhavmitra anubhavmitra is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airdave View Post
I have no opinion on who designed either of these models, I am not pointing fingers at anyone.

But I do have an opinion on designing and selling a model, so this is for any designer...

1. If you can design a model, then you can design a cover. Your own cover.
It takes the same effort and skills and usually, the same software.
But if you don't have the software, there are free graphics creation programs out there, so no excuse.
ecardmodels also provides a basic cover template if you're too lazy to create your own...you need only slap a photo on and type a name for your model.

2. If you design a model, it must be test built.
(unless its just a repaint and theres proof of test build not affected by the repaint...although even repaints need test builds to guaranty artwork alignment)
Either test build it yourself (recommended because its invaluable experience)
or get a trusted modeler to test build it for you.
This is a "must do" and I would personally not accept a model into my shop if it wasn't test built.

3. Test building also allows you to take photos of the finished model which you can use on your cover and for the store listing.
** Taking photos these days is not beyond anyone's skills. 99% of people have a phone capable of taking photos.
Maybe not great photos, but its easy to learn a few photo basics from places like youtube.
If you don't have a camera, your neighbour or a friend will...and if you have your model test built, your builder will no doubt have a camera.


4. And if you use other people's ideas, copy their style and methods, even copy parts of their templates...its all okay,
as long as you get the required permissions to do so and make an effort to introduce as much originality as possible into your new design.
There are only so many way to make a box from paper and you will inevitably copy someone else's efforts, but its not hard to put in the effort to make it original in some way.
Just changing the livery or markings on someone else's design is not "original" and will require express permission from the original designer to do so (if you plan on redistributing it).

There is absolutely no excuse not to do any of these things if you wish to design and sell your own model.
I would not sell your model if you refuse to follow any of these steps.
Thanks Dave for the suggestions would definitely follow these steps from now on.
I am not a good model builder so I would ask someone to build it for me and I would give him or her credit in the cover page
Learnt my lessons
And yes when the models are of the same type of object, then there are bound to similarities

Also say I repaint a free model can I upload it as a free model without taking permission from the orginal design if I give credits to him her?
Dont want to take any wrong steps!
Thanks in advance
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  #26  
Old 06-23-2021, 10:39 AM
anubhavmitra anubhavmitra is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anubhavmitra View Post
Thanks Dave for the suggestions would definitely follow these steps from now on.
I am not a good model builder so I would ask someone to build it for me and I would give him or her credit in the cover page
Learnt my lessons
And yes when the models are of the same type of object, then there are bound to similarities

Also say I repaint a free model can I upload it as a free model without taking permission from the orginal design if I give credits to him her?
Dont want to take any wrong steps!
Thanks in advance
And given my reputation now kind of tarnished, should I ever sell my very own designed models or just upload here for free?
Opinions will be appreciated
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  #27  
Old 06-23-2021, 10:42 AM
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airdave airdave is offline
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I don't you think you completely understood my points.
Those weren't "suggestions", they were demands and expectations. To you or any "designer"

...
If you can't design your own model: draw patterns and shapes in some sort of art creation program (or by pen and pencil on a sheet of paper)...
If you can't colour that model, add markings and details of your own creation...
If you can't add tabs, create basic assembly instructions, create a cover page as requested...
If you can't print and test build a model..
If you can't take photos of the finished model or get photos of your finished model...

then you shouldn't be "designing" models...you're not a "designer"
and therefore not a retailer (seller) of original designs.

I'd even question the distribution of free models.
Whether a model is paid for or acquired free, does not change ownership rights, intellectual properties, and rules of design and creation.

...
"Repainters" fall into a different category and live by different rules.
And they must still ask for permission to redistribute someone else work (repainted or not).


In my opinion: borrowing someone elses "3D model" or copying someone else's templates is not designing.
Using Pepakura to flatten out a 3D model and recreate the "skins" and textures" that were already there...is not designing.
In my store, I would not sell this "designers" work.


But of course, none of this matters if you tooks Sergey's model and tried to rebrand it as your own design.
Thats between you, and Sergey, and ecardmodels.
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  #28  
Old 06-23-2021, 11:01 AM
anubhavmitra anubhavmitra is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airdave View Post
I don't you think you completely understood my points.
Those weren't "suggestions", they were demands and expectations. To you or any "designer"

...
If you can't design your own model: draw patterns and shapes in some sort of art creation program (or by pen and pencil on a sheet of paper)...
If you can't colour that model, add markings and details of your own creation...
If you can't add tabs, create basic assembly instructions, create a cover page as requested...
If you can't print and test build a model..
If you can't take photos of the finished model or get photos of your finished model...

then you shouldn't be "designing" models...you're not a "designer"
and therefore not a retailer (seller) of original designs.

I'd even question the distribution of free models.
Whether a model is paid for or acquired free, does not change ownership rights, intellectual properties, and rules of design and creation.

...
"Repainters" fall into a different category and live by different rules.
And they must still ask for permission to redistribute someone else work (repainted or not).


But of course, none of this matters if you tooks Sergey's model and rebranded it as your own design.
Thats between you, and Sergey, and ecardmodels.


In my opinion: borrowing someone elses "3D model" or copying someone else's templates is not designing.
Using Pepakura to flatten out a 3D model and recreate the "skins" and textures" that were already there...is not designing.
In my store, I would not sell this "designers" work.
I can definitely do what you said, I can create parts and make test build.
I just dont copy others work
And you probably know just unfolding 3d model in pepakura cant make workable templates
And when I use someone else's 3d model I never forget to take written person from him or her
And probably no one understood about the red jet model
I gave chris the wrong model, I designed a red jet ferry by my self with taking help from 3d model(with permission) I had no intention or greed to call his work my design
Pretty frustrated at this point
Also not every one can make a complex 3d model
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  #29  
Old 06-23-2021, 11:13 AM
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airdave airdave is offline
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Originally Posted by anubhavmitra View Post
Also not every one can make a complex 3d model
neither can I...and yet, I have a store with 300 models in it for sale!
Paper Model Shop Home (shameless plug lol sorry ecardmodels)


............
another thing...there are many online communities were people share their 3D mesh models and designs.
These are usually free to download and can be used to create paper models using software like pepakura designer.

But the "creators" sometime "rip" their mesh models from software and games, which is actually copyright infringement.
So a lot of those mesh models are tolerated for personal and private use, but are actually someone else's intellectual property.

And even the legit shared 3D models are usually shared for personal and private use only...not for commercial use.

So unless you contacted a creator that actually owned a design outright,
asked them for complete permission for commerical use on your part,
and got that permission in writing for future reference...
you are not in legal territory.


.....
okay, time to start discussing this elsewhere (if need be) since its making a mess of the ecardmodels thread.
sorry about that...but this is still important information to ecardmodels designers and users.
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  #30  
Old 06-23-2021, 02:17 PM
anubhavmitra anubhavmitra is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airdave View Post
neither can I...and yet, I have a store with 300 models in it for sale!
Paper Model Shop Home (shameless plug lol sorry ecardmodels)


............
another thing...there are many online communities were people share their 3D mesh models and designs.
These are usually free to download and can be used to create paper models using software like pepakura designer.

But the "creators" sometime "rip" their mesh models from software and games, which is actually copyright infringement.
So a lot of those mesh models are tolerated for personal and private use, but are actually someone else's intellectual property.

And even the legit shared 3D models are usually shared for personal and private use only...not for commercial use.

So unless you contacted a creator that actually owned a design outright,
asked them for complete permission for commerical use on your part,
and got that permission in writing for future reference...
you are not in legal territory.


.....
okay, time to start discussing this elsewhere (if need be) since its making a mess of the ecardmodels thread.
sorry about that...but this is still important information to ecardmodels designers and users.
Then my model i guess is legal because the 3d model was most probably designed by the creator. Is Sergey model legal then as his model was taken from ship simulator as he said.

...
Look i am a student who happens like papermodels since childhood and sometimes creates templates in free time, also rules are so complex I think should go back to just building them.
BTW, I am going to build Barry's Maersk Sealand express
Should I create a separate topic
Or should I build Murphy's ATR 72 or Edwin's Bombardier
Challenger 300?
Also if I take a paid papermodel and and redesign or take 3d model from a game can I atleast use it for personal use?🙂
What should be the name of the new topic?
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