Early P-51/Mustangs - Data and Paper Model Comments

[member_3]

Originally Posted by airdave

If I can get more info (ie pictures) on these items, I will attempt to make updates to the existing kits:
-Wing Cannon locations for the Dazzle Mustang (P-51A)
-prop Blades (Curtis Electric?)
-an extra landing light on right Wing of the B/C Mustangs?? (I didn't add this?)
-missing IDENT lights on the right wing tip

The outer cannon should be in the same position vertically as the outer MG on the rest of your Mustangs - in other words, slightly below the inner one.

The Curtiss-electric has rounded tips and no cuffs on the inner half of the blade - in other words, they taper toward the hub.

There is a landing light on both wings on your P-51B/Cs - there shouldn't be one on the right wing.

The ident lights are on the Marek original. They are the three circles inboard of the right wing tip on the bottom of the wing.

WAG- "Did the Allison engined versions have a mechanical up-lock?"

Apparently so. they are described as opening only during the extend/retract cycle and had to be manually released on the ground.

[airdave]

Wing lighting I have already looked into...
you are absolutely right, and theres no excuse for why I didn't get those lights proper!
I have already put together some new wings with the triple lights on the right wing
and the extra landing light has been removed.
(I will be making up some update pages very soon and get all the kits sorted out)

Prop differences...I'll just have to get a look at the props you are talking about and make some adjustments.

Wing Cannons on the A model "Dazzle"...
I have to disagree with you on this one.
I agree that the machine gun ports are usually offset giving a horizon level position
but these Cannons are clearly visible on the disruptive camo Mustang
as being inline with the wing shape.
They do not have the same offset as the Machine gun ports.

[member_3]

Okey-dokey on the cannon - not a problem with me. The Curtiss-Electric prop shape should be about the same as an Allison-engined early P-40. Actually, the photo of the dazzle P-51 has the Curtiss-Electric prop.

[airdave]

Ron (and anyone else) I need your help...

I have looked into the Curtiss Electric - Hamilton Standard prop issue.
I agree that the early P-51s were equipped with the CE props (later versions with the HamStan)
I have an original CE pamphlet on their props...and good pics of the "cuffed" and "non-cuffed" versions. (There seems to be three distinct props blades shown)

Problem is nothing matches the "Dazzle" Mustang!@

Take a look at the pic i have assembled...you can clearly see the prop is a "non-cuffed" prop, and yet it doesn't match the shape of the non-cuffed prop (say like the one on the Aerocobra)...it more matches the cuffed version without the cuff (although not exactly)
And there is clearly different markings on the prop...there are serial number markings in the area where the cuff would cover (if this were a "cuffed" version) which is wrong, and there is no CE logo where it should be.

Could this 'stang have been an "oddball"? I have info that says this was a very unique plane, probably a "one-off" build, a transformed "transitional trainer" early P-51A model. Maybe this plane had a different prop for some unknown reason?

[Bomarc]

Dave

They look roughly the same to me, it's just that the P-51's spinner is half again larger in diameter than the P-39's and covers up more of the blade shank, maybe giving a illusion of a different shape?

Mike

Post edit: the more I think about it, it could be that Curtiss supplied a unique blade type to NAA. Hamilton Standard did it with their cuffed 4-blader in the Merlin series. I do know there were two types of Curtiss blades fitted to the Allison P-51's: The "needle" type shown above, and a little broader "paddle" type. I'm away for the holidays so can't access my ref's but I'll ask around....

[member_3]

I concur that the props on the P-51 and the P-39 are definitely the same style (if not the same diameter.) The P-39 spinner size is definitely smaller and would expose more of the prop. The dazzle bird was just a repainted in-service P-51 as I recall. There were other aircraft painted in schemes of that sort (a couple Buffalos, for example) and all were repaints of in-service birds. Apparently the disruptive camouflage trials were deemed to be not effective because I have found no record of them being used operationally (except on ships.)

[Bomarc]

Been poking around and a well knowledgeable friend of mine is looking into the Curtiss types. I did find some images to illustrate the two types of blades I've seen on Allison Mustangs. This is the earlier tapered type:



Then a later broader type. This image is from another friend's website Swiss Mustangs:



HTH

Mike

[airdave]

I think, since we have very little information on this "dazzle" Mustang
we must accept a certain amount of speculation and assumption.

It is obvious from the one photo we have and from the type of P-51 pictured, that the propellers I have included in the kit, are wrong.

But since there is no definitive information regarding the correct look and style of the propeller blades...
I will just attempt to produce a new blade, that more closely resembles the "non-cuffed" Curtiss-Electric blade and resembles the propeller blade in the "dazzle" Mustang photo.
This last pic, is a very good example of an alternative look (thanks Bomarc!) and a more accurate look...and will do very nicely for the updated artwork.

We can see in this last photo also, that the C-E logo is missing from the props...I guess it is possible that the logos were removed or painted over...or possibly these are the aluminum alloy blades, that have been painted black?

[airdave]

heres the new props for the Dazzle Mustang

[Bomarc]

Looks great Dave! I believe the yellow tip is on both sides of the blade.

Mike