Saturn V Massive Build

[Retired_for_now]

I think others (with more Estes rocket experience) have been using chutes. For the small/simple rockets I usually produce they are light enought they come down fairly soft. The only real lawn darts I've produced are the double length, slim 1/2inch PVC rockets - they come down nose first just about as fast as they go up.
Yogi

[mbauer]

Originally Posted by wag

The Mythbusters actually tried that. Shockingly they couldn't get it to work.
Annotated Mythbusters: Episode 42: Steel Toe Amputation, Bottle Rocket Blast Off
Wayne

Ouch, well still one of favorites-its the thought that counts...
Mike

[mbauer]

Originally Posted by cdavenport

I saw that Mythbusters episode...GREAT!

On another note. I noticed no mention of parachute recovery. Any reason you are not using chutes to recover the stomp rockets? When I was a science teacher, we did the water launch rockets which was huge fun!. Some of the more enterprising students wanted to employ chute recovery systems.

So, I helped them design drag flaps that would lie flush to the nosecone during launch. But, as soon as the rocket reached its apogee, the flaps would be free of air pressure, spring out, create drag enough to pull the nose cone off and deploy the parachute.

Of course, sometimes, the rocket would follow a ballistic trajectory and crash rather spectacularly into the ground! Either way was great fun!

Oh yes, parachute and chute cord material: dry cleaner bags or ultra thin trash can liner bags and single strand nylon string. Very light, but very efficient.

Thank you for the idea! Will try them on other models to see if they work. At present converting most of my rockets to a compressed air shock absorber nosecone/capsule.

The 27" Saturn V doesn't need anything though. Here is a video of a High Performance internal modification I tried, it changed the CG and now the model lands 7 out of 10 flights on it's side. High Performance mod triples previous heights!

Here is a video


Going to test a nosecone with a fishing weight inside the nosecone. Plan is to enclose the bottom of the capsule after installing a fishing weight.

Hopefully the weight will ride up on the bottom, then at apogee fall towards the top creating a "slide-hammer" effect to dis-lodge the nosecone/capsule deploying a chute.

Your idea is lighter and might be better. Thanks for the tip!

Yogi,

According to some things I've read, if they come straight down, the rocket should equal the velocity that they clear the launch tube with.

Mike

[cdavenport]

The video is awesome! Snow makes a great landing cushion.

Your lead weight idea won't work; Galileo proved that way back in the 16th/17th century. The rocket and lead weight will fall pretty much in unison unless the rocket experiences a sudden change in acceleration during the descent phase of its ballistic trajectory.

However, if you were to modify the lead weight concept so that the weight was secured to the end of a momentum arm that was pivoted only slightly past center towards the weight, there might be sufficient change in acceleration to case the weight to move, thereby releasing a hair trigger which, in turn, could release a spring loaded mechanism to POP the parachute out.

Geez, that even sounds complicated and the added weight of the mechanism would lower the apogee of the flights.

[calinous]

Mister Davenport, the only experiment where I've seen a feather fall as fast as a hammer was done in void (on the Moon maybe? there was a video of it).
Air resistance will slow down the rocket, while the fishing weight won't feel it enough to measure anything. On the other side, I'm not sure the fishing weight will have enough energy to dislodge the nosecone

[mbauer]

Boy oh boy another experiment! Actually 3-more counting the drag fins....
Now I gotta know....

Yes, there is avideo called "For All Mankind" on the net that shows an Astronaut on the moon doing it, recently I posted a link to it.

Apollo Saturn V Video

Whoops only USA can see I guess.

Mike

[cdavenport]

Originally Posted by calinous

Mister Davenport, the only experiment where I've seen a feather fall as fast as a hammer was done in void (on the Moon maybe? there was a video of it).
Air resistance will slow down the rocket, while the fishing weight won't feel it enough to measure anything. On the other side, I'm not sure the fishing weight will have enough energy to dislodge the nosecone

Not fussin', jus' discussin' This IS just a fun discourse, right? No ego involved on my part. When I taught science, we did these kind of experiments in class. True, in a vacuum, the rate at which a feather and a lead weight fall are exactly identical. But, just like person sitting in a car that is uniformly, as opposed to abruptly, decelerating due to aerodynamic and engine drag, that person moves little, if at all, in his/her seat. It's only when the brakes are applied, or some other force acts on the auto, that the person actually feels deceleration force in the form of pressure on the seat belt or actual movement in the seat.

In the theoretical example we have here, in the absence of any substantive change in deceleration, that lead weight just won't move enough to pop that chute out. However, if the weight is precariously balanced within the confines of the rocket, it could be used as a trip mechanism so that even the slightest deceleration force would upset the balance, thereby triggering the release device. That's actually the basic principle behind a gyroscopic stabilizer except that instead of using springs or trip mechanisms, it achieves its control through precise electromagnetic inputs due to acceleration.

By the way, whether the rocket is speeding up or slowing down, it is accelerating. Acceleration is merely a measure in the change of velocity over time. We use the term "deceleration" only as a convenience.

Of course, without the mathematics to prove this, it's all conjecture, and I confess, that it's been quite some time since I have fooled with the math! So, it's up to Mauther to experiment, which is really all the fun!

So, Mauther, we are waiting for your report. Launch away!

Thanks for letting me "hijack" your thread with this discourse in physical science. It really is fun! And, I am really enjoying watching your results.

P.S. When you are ready for it, I know how to boost your rockets higher. But, you certainly will need some sort of recovery system.

[Zathros]

Originally Posted by mbauer

Zathros,

Here is my favorite water rocket video....


Mike

I am sorry I missed that one, I spit my coffee out when I watched it!! That guy looked really surprised. I was!!

[Zathros]

As far as deploying a chute, you could make a timer using a plastic tube and paper clip and rubber band. The idea is that you compress the rubber pipe and the pin inside is attached to a rubber band. You can time and adjust the pull to allow it to trip a switch. We used to do this on free sailing sailboats to make the rudder change course. You could probably do something similar using the pressure you build up to make a release mechanism based on something like this. You rockets are awesome. I could see some awesome planes taking off that way, way harder than could be thrown.!!

[mbauer]

Originally Posted by cdavenport

So, Mauther, we are waiting for your report. Launch away! Actually Mauther is someone else...

Thanks for letting me "hijack" your thread with this discourse in physical science. It really is fun! And, I am really enjoying watching your results. Don't consider it a hijack at all!! Any time I learn, it is a good thing!

P.S. When you are ready for it, I know how to boost your rockets higher. But, you certainly will need some sort of recovery system.

You mean I'm going to end up doing 4 more tests?????

Are you talking air pressure or using engines? Ok, too Pm me if you want. More than willing to learn new things or errors in my ways! Or post here on this thread as well!

Hopefully I'll be launching again this coming weekend, just need someone to run the camera or volunteer to turn the valve, with stomp rockets I could do both, but the valve needs a third hand...

Mike