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  #11  
Old 07-28-2018, 09:51 AM
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ennder ennder is offline
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This being for a game, your best bet might be to make 2 sets of masts for the
ships. one with the sails and one without, with a "socket" to hold the interchangeable masts upright.
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Looking for details on beam to mast connection-ship-mast.jpg  
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  #12  
Old 07-30-2018, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by abhovi View Post
... Easy solutions for rigging do not exist. Not if you want to let it look a bit trustworthy. Believe me, I tried.


Your thread is awesome. I love the amount of detail you put into your models. It is very inspiring.

I have spent the weekend looking at a lot of articles and pictures showing the different type of rigs in general and the development through time. A very interesting topic!

I think I will make a couple of versions.

The basic being only a mast stump for gamers who are not concerned with what is going on over them.

Then a mast setup that will allow you to either glue on the sails assembly parts or preferably make them detachable for safe and easy storage.

And finally a more detailed version that is glued on where you have to add lines/ropes manually and other details to update your model to be more of a showcase model.

In any case, this project is very exciting for me and I am looking forward to what is happening on my work table soon!

Chris
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Old 07-30-2018, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Papierschnitzel View Post
From what I have seen the beams of the aft sail are like forks going around each side of the mast or are connected via a hinge to a metal ring around the mast.



I am guessing the front/bow beam will be fixed as I imagine it dangerous if it could move around and the sail is attached at the bow and top like a modern sailing boat.
Chris, I believe that the sails (and the beams) must rotate. In fact, seen pictures from Tall Ships in the West -, you can see that all the the sails of the Lioness and the Dove are moving around the mast in one or another of the pictures. That's imperative to navegate with the winds at angle from the sailing direction
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  #14  
Old 07-30-2018, 09:30 AM
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Yes Draco, the sails have to rotate (on a real ship). I was calling the "front boom" by the wrong name as abhovi pointed out. The jib (boom) is secured and the sail is "fixed" on the front/top edge but can move sideways on the free corner (as is with modern sailing boats).


I just received my first boat books and after a first glance I might need to make notes on vocabulary cards to help memorize all the new words. It's like a new language. And I dread that in German the words will be all different too!
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Old 07-30-2018, 09:58 AM
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Less bad than you think it is. Many Words for details of sailing ships originate from Dutch. Especially German Words.
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Old 07-30-2018, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Papierschnitzel View Post
I just received my first boat books and after a first glance I might need to make notes on vocabulary cards to help memorize all the new words. It's like a new language. And I dread that in German the words will be all different too!
Hee hee. You think it may be difficult to understand ... Just bear in mind that, apart from the captain, very few of the crews of these ships could read or write. So the names of all the sheets, and yards, and ropes, and lines, and hawsers, etc, etc, had to be committed to memory. When the Cap'n or Bos'n gave orders for adjustments, the crew needed to know exactly what they were talkin' about.
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Old 07-30-2018, 11:32 AM
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Hee hee. You think it may be difficult to understand ... Just bear in mind that, apart from the captain, very few of the crews of these ships could read or write. So the names of all the sheets, and yards, and ropes, and lines, and hawsers, etc, etc, had to be committed to memory. When the Cap'n or Bos'n gave orders for adjustments, the crew needed to know exactly what they were talkin' about.
In fact I think that the names of all the components of the ship were purposelly changed to prevent that any landdweller be able to understand a word. Sailing, like any profession (And I'm a programmer) tends to create a self-contained world with it's own vocabulary
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  #18  
Old 07-31-2018, 01:44 AM
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The rigging and masting of ships is simpler then it looks!

In real life there was no fixed way of doing the above. The hull was built and then the Captain generally decided on mast sizes and the rig. After a few runs, the ship would then be remasted - by way of fine tuning - while the rigging was fine tuned as they went along.

Key ports were often set up to facilitate the above. The Royal Navy for example used to remast new ships at Cape Town on journeys outbound.

In terms of the rigging, it is pretty standard. I used to make wooden ship models and once I understood the working of the rig I used to do this without a diagram and it was often spot on or similar.

The are two types of rigging - Standing and Running.

Standing supports the masts. One put up it stays up. It was generally tarred, so it was black in colour.

Running rigging works the sails. This rigging was often modified to a standard pattern, and adjusted to suit handling. For example extra or reduced blocks may be put in etc.

Functionality is the key to everything that is done.

For example, booms and spars were attached to masts in a few standard ways, any of which are correct. Jibs and booms were generally forked and used parrels and ropes to secure the open side. This is because they need to both rotate and move vertically.

------------

Elliot suggested 3 books that are good choices, especially "The Young Sea Officer's Sheet Anchor".

There is one other book, which is probably the definitive book on masts and rigging and which I cannot recommend enough - "The Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War 1625 - 1860" by Lees. Do let the ships of war bit put you off - the basic principles are the same for working boats!
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  #19  
Old 07-31-2018, 05:10 AM
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I think the two book I am wrangling with will get me started very well. I have also found a couple of 3D meshes I can load into Blender and turn around and look and details.


I have put all the books (also on other forums) that have been recommended on a list for future reading :-)


Just to clarify, the ships I want to design will not be copies of an existing ship but rather typical classes or designs that I will "make-up". So when I look at Bermuda Sloops, Brigs, Frigates and Galleons, I am studying the common features and then will design my version, with all the required adaptions to make it a good balance between good looks and easy build.


That being said, as I will show my progress, I do encourage and hope for solid feedback when I tackle each class of ship.


Right now I am looking into the details of specific rig parts, like where and how are the ratlines attached etc.


Next month might be slow with updates, as I will be making a Feudal Japan building for a change, but in my breaks I am compiling all the details I need so that the next ship is ready to be designed in September!


To be honest I was a little intimidated with the topic of rigs but even with the little I have read I start to understand it much better and actually enjoy how it all comes together.


It IS like learning a new programming language! I am a coder too :-)


Chris
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  #20  
Old 07-31-2018, 11:01 PM
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There you are!

You will get there quickly!
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