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  #2421  
Old 05-13-2021, 07:43 AM
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Hi Marcell,

I assume you mean Jürgen Ziegler (FADDA), right?
BTW, he is posting at the Competition Forum (die-kartonmodellbauer.de).

Na dann Prost!

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  #2422  
Old 05-14-2021, 10:56 AM
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Hello everybody,

but now one also needs 16 Gear cases on which the 16 Propel motors are mounted,


Source: Jürgen Ziegler (FADDA) - YouTube
which one can see here after assembly.


Source: Jürgen Ziegler (FADDA) - YouTube

Therefore maybe you can imagine that I'm not really bent on scratching 16 exemplars of this tricky assembly, especially since they are only about half the size in my scale 1/160, and that I can't make friends with David Maier's less detailed kit variant anyway.


Source: papermodelers.com (mk311049)


Source: papermodelers.com (mk311049)

That's why I have asked my ARC friend Joe (crackerjazz), who has kindly started with the 3D modeling of the Propel Motors, for which I've emailed him some first dimensions.


Source: Micro Artwork, Mischa Klement (cyana)

Unfortunately I don't have any NASA drawings of these assemblies. But meanwhile I'm able to take measurements (1/160) in Mischa Klement's Truck 3D PDF, because the determination of the dimensions from the paper kit is rather imprecise.


Source: Micro Artwork, Mischa Klement (cyana)

And always with Hi-Res photos of the original in mind,


Source: NASA

we are slowly progressing, step by step, as one can see in this progress shot.


Source: ARC Forums member Crackerjazz

It can carry on like this.

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Last edited by spacerunner; 05-15-2021 at 05:14 PM.
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  #2423  
Old 05-14-2021, 04:54 PM
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Hello everybody,

here comes the next progress with some more details.




Source: ARC Forums member Crackerjazz

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  #2424  
Old 05-15-2021, 03:26 PM
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eagleclaw4935 eagleclaw4935 is offline
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Hello Manfred. The progress your making is truly astounding. I noticed that you latched on to Mischa's crawler kit. This is truly the holy grail of crawlers .I got mine back this past January with plans to start this spring, but now that project may be pushed back to the winter of 21. Between taking care of my clients and life in general my personal time is almost nonexistant. But I am lucking in the weeds watching and loving every minute of your build. Keep plugging away, this thread is the real happy place. Best wishes . Ed
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  #2425  
Old 05-15-2021, 05:36 PM
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Thanks Ed for your nice comment.
Congrats that you have also got Mischa Klement's kit, which is really the ultimate Crawler Paper kit!
And if you will have went through all 20 Videos of Jürgen Ziegler's Crawler Series you will feel as if you had built the crawler already!

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  #2426  
Old 05-18-2021, 04:02 PM
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Hello everybody,

during my intensive occupation both with Mischa Klement's Crawler Kit and with his ingenious Truck 3D PDF, especially during determining various dimensions with the 3D measuring tool I came across something that gave me a bit of a headache. And those are the sometimes minimal thicknesses of certain parts in the tenths of a millimeter range, with which Shapeways should have considerable problems during printing, without knowing their latest limit values.

Such a thin part I want to show using the example of the retaining plate (part 5), which only is approx. 0,1 mm thick, to which the holders of the brake shoes of the brake disc (parts 9/10) are attached.


Source: Micro Artwork, Mischa Klement (cyana)

Similar parts with critical wall thicknesses I have framed in red in the Outlines PDF, whereby it is, among other things, the motor feet (parts 18-22),


Source: Micro Artwork, Mischa Klement (cyana)

which one can locate in the assembly instructions using the overview of the individual parts of a left Propel motor, which I always have within reach.


Source: Micro Artwork, Mischa Klement (cyana)

For illustration the proportions of the parts and distances that always appear huge in the 3D model shots, in the following picture I have determined the distance between the brake disc and this retaining plate, which is only approx. 1 mm.


Source: Micro Artwork, Mischa Klement (cyana)

About this issue of minimal thicknesses I've informed my 3D modeler and asked him how we should deal with it.

Thereupon he has said that once the 3D model is ready, we might have to adjust the thicknesses and enlarge small details, because otherwise they would be invisible.

This is undoubtedly an advantage of Paper models, which Mischa Klement was able to use in his paper kit, since thin components made of paper still have sufficient stability. From this point of view, paper allows much smaller thicknesses than 3D printing, in which it may no longer be printable, which must be taken into account when 3D modeling.

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  #2427  
Old 05-19-2021, 06:00 PM
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Hello everybody,

in order to finally get a real idea of the size of such a Propel Motor in my scale (1/160), I have tried just for the fun of it to scratch such a motor from plastic, and have quickly realized what a midget it is.

For the base body of the motor I've used an Evergreen profile 4,8 x 6,3 mm, which I've cut on the narrow side with the precision saw on approx. 5 mm.



Then I've drawn the octagonal shape of the motor housing onto the front side,



and afterwards I have filed down the four corners, whereby I had to be very careful not to take away too much.



On this approx. 7 mm long octagonal base body I have glued on the two disks (part 3) for fixing the retaining plate (part 5) for mounting the brake shoes of the brake disc (parts 9/10).


Source: Micro Artwork, Mischa Klement (cyana)



Then it was the turn of the front brake disc shaft and the rear drive shaft.



For the retaining plate I've used Styrene 0,15 mm and for the brake disc Styrene 0,3 mm,



which were then glued, as well as the two rear ventilation openings (part 33) and the cable box (part 35) on the inside of the (left) motor. The ending was formed by the four small feet (parts 20-23) made of Styrene 0,15 mm, which were glued to the underside of the base body, wherewith I then wanted initially let it go at that.

And there he lies now, the (unfinished) proud midget that I fiddled around with for a few hours,



the one with approx. 14 mm length has place on my Euro Cent coin,



and whose brake disc with Ø 5 mm, as already announced, stands comfortably on the globe of the coin.



Here one can see for comparison the original Propel motors in the older version, relevant for my STS-6 Crawler,


Source: Library of Congress (HAER FL-8-11-C-3)

as well as here after upgrading and modernization of the Crawler Transporters for the SLS Program, which can be easily recognized by the stronger blue brake shoes.


Source: NASA

Because I now know the amount of hand work involved in crafting one motor, I hope all the more that we can get right a printable 3D model for a Set of 16 + 2 reserve motors.

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  #2428  
Old 05-25-2021, 01:04 PM
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Hello everybody,

since one can measure almost all parts in the Truck 3D PDF, I was curious and as an exercise I measured some other details in order to scratch them if necessary, or at least once to try what is still feasible in 1/160.

First of all there were these 4 legs (parts 18/19) discussed previously, which I've measured.


Source: Micro Artwork, Mischa Klement (cyana)


Source: Micro Artwork, Mischa Klement (cyana)

I've then printed out their outlines from the Outline PDF, then stuck them onto thin Evergreen Sheet Styrene (0,13 mm) and then cut them out, which due to the "Size" wasn't that easy.



And since these are angle profiles, I then folded them under a steel ruler, which was also pretty tricky.



Gluing the legs was rather fiddling, because I had to somehow hold the motor and be careful not to let these midgets jump out of the tweezers, but what I still succeeded in doing, what will still be seen.

Before that I still had measured these two flaps (parts 27) over the service openings,


Source: Micro Artwork, Mischa Klement (cyana)

which are each closed with a Tension lock, which should just about be printable, I hope at least.


Source: Micro Artwork, Mischa Klement (cyana)


Source: Micro Artwork, Mischa Klement (cyana)

In any case, that wasn't a hurdle for me.



On the left beside can be seen one of the four Transport eyelets (parts 30/31),


Source: Micro Artwork, Mischa Klement (cyana)

whose thickness in paper thickness (0,1 mm) should be probably too thin for Shapeways.


Source: Micro Artwork, Mischa Klement (cyana)

For these eyelets I used a flat U-profile (0,7 x 1,2 mm), from which I've cut off thin slices with the razor blade.

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  #2429  
Old 05-25-2021, 01:05 PM
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And then also to the cover cap between the eyelets and the small screws,


Source: ARC Forums (crackerjazz)

which I made from Evergreen Sheet Styrene (0,13 mm) with my Punch & Die Set with diameter Ø 0,8 mm and the smallest existing diameter Ø 0,6 mm, which however should only be half as large.



And then the most stressful action came with the gluing of these midgets, which is one more reason for preferring to leave the 16 motors to 3D printing.



As already said, the screws are too large and should only be approx. Ø 0,3 mm, which I've then cut off from a corresponding thin rod,



and tried to apply,



but with which I now stop trying to want sophisticate myself further.

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  #2430  
Old 05-25-2021, 04:27 PM
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I've said it before, I'll say it again....Aye chihuahua! Thatsa tiny meataballa!
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