1/24 Apollo/Saturn V (enlarged 1/48 Greelt et al version)

[Algebraist]

Originally Posted by luke strawwalker

I've read a number of the studies for the improvement and possible recovery and reuse of the S-IC stages...
OL J R

Thanks for your post (of which I have just clipped a little quote from above).
Your full post has loads of really interesting stuff.

It got me looking and I found this



It comes from a post on the Collect Space and the link given takes you to the post which is all about Boeing's 18 page booklet they produced about possible recovery methods of the S-1C. It also has other stuff about the topic in the post.

I would love to know more about the giant helicopter idea. Does anyone know of any diagrams, illustrations etc of it?

Thanks for explaining about the need of a throttleable rocket engine to be able to land like spacex does. I think the LM decent engine was a massive challenge because it was (the first?) throtterable rocket engine. I wonder if even today could an F-1 engine be made throttleable?

Kevin

[Algebraist]

Originally Posted by stealth-tech

I'm glad they moved most of their exhibits to the Great Lakes Science Center where I think more people will get to see them.

I don't suppose anyone following this thread has been to the Great Lakes Science Center and has got some photos of any rockets there and wouldn't mind showing them?

We are very "rocket light" in the UK

[Algebraist]

Dear all

So I have been working on the engine mounts, struts, support plates and fairings of the thrust structure. It has been a little slow because of two things. First the struts took quite a while to fold and glue. They proved to be tricky to keep square and not twist. They are 15cm/6in long. I had been trying to find a long thin square ended steel rod (in order to support inside the strut when pressing during gluing, but have not found anything. In the end I used a BBQ bamboo skewer. Not as good but with a bit of patience managed to get them made (photos in a moment)

Doing this part of the thrust structure was a little tricky and does (at least for me) require a couple of tools, so I thought I would quickly show what I have been using

First up, knives




For heavy duty stuff I use a "Stanley" knife (the red knife in the photo) with 192 heavy duty blades (so 2mm+ grey card). For everything else, most of the time I use a scalpel. I mostly use a number 4 handle and a 25A blade but for some fine stuff I use a number 3 handle with a 10A blade. (I got mine from a medical suppliers and a handle is about £3.50 and 100 non sterile blades is about £8.50). I like the Swann-Morton equipment. The handles are really nicely finished and the blades are REALLY REALLY sharp. The other thing in the photo is a Mayo-Hager surgical needle holder/needle driver (Mayo-Hager is the design not the make). This is used (along with the "thumb method") for putting on and taking off blades from the scalpel. (As a doctor friend told me, every year there are 1000's of "sharps" injuries in operating theatres from people being stabbed by putting on or taking off a scalpel blade incorrectly). Final thing to note is I do not hold it like a pen (no control that way for me) but hold it using surgical grip. For me that gives great control, transfers all the force to the end of the blade and does not put any strain on my finger joints.

I don't use ACM/X-acto knives. We just don't get on. I cannot seem to control them. That is of course my operator error, not the knives fault.



In the first photo above there are the three pairs of scissors I use, the two smaller pairs are manicure scissors (from Boots, a few pounds nothing flash). One of the smaller pairs has curved blades which has helped me when cutting tight curves. There are also two pairs of tweezers. One pair is "normally closed" (helps me hold small things) and the other is ladies "eyebrow", so squared off steel pads at the end (boots own brand £3.00). I give the price because I saw some tweezers costing over £20 and I think they are no better (for the model I am doing at least).

In the second photo you can see the piece of dowel I use and also the BBQ bamboo skewer. Both for getting into small or long reach places to go underneath so I can press. The "rod" which is black in the middle and silver at each end is a ladies manicure "weapon". It is brilliant. I use it as a scorer, support, curver, scraper, picker. One end is like a shoe horn, the other a half moon. I have two steel rules for cutting and also for supporting when gluing and finally for when scoring has to be exact and fine I use the non sharp end of this little pen knife thingy set I have from who knows where.

I have given the cost so that if anyone is watching and is thinking of having a go a paper modelling, then as you can see it is not a big outlay (and I think many people are just as good with a pair of scissors (no knives at all).

Given that, now on with the build.

So the parts were cut out and then gluing the struts took time (as mentioned at the start). The "A" struts were formed and the support plates attached to the body. (Photos below)



Then the engine supports were added and the "A" strut structure added to the body and also glued to the engine supports. It was important at this stage to "dry check" exactly where to glue the top of the "A" strut as a tiny bit out would mean not being able to to connect to the engine mounts (because of the long span and no wiggle room for the struts)



Now for the inside of the engine fairings. From doing the 1/48 model I had learnt this was (for me) the hardest part of the thrust structure to get right. I had tried a number of ways, non of them were perfect. Since I have read other people asking how to do this step I photographed what I did (in case it helps some people).

I found that it was better to keep the joining tabs as "pairs" rather than individual tabs (except for at the pointy end when it was a "triple" tab. Turning the structure upside down I glued one tab at a time, on the left hand side (since I am right handed) starting at the wide end of the fairing. The real (impossible for me) thing is getting the edge of the fairing to run right next to the body of the rocket for the entire length of the fairing. I dont think it is possible to get a reasonable result using just fingers. This is where I used dowels, bamboo stick etc. I places it is away from the body by 0.5mm but it was the best I could do.



Then I started the right hand side, one "tab" at a time starting at the wide end of the fairing. This side is more awkward (ie the "second side to be glued) but being right handed it is better this side second than the other side. It is also handy (I found) having little pegs just to feep the fairing from moving about too much



Eventually got there and did all four fairings.
Here they are all done.



As you can see it is 66cm/26in across!

I had to move it out of that room later and (by good luck, I had not considered this) it just fits through the door. Luckily the fins were not on else it would have been a "candid camera" moment (for those of you old enough to remember that programme, do you remember the one where two blocks deliver a create to a room then while they get the paperwork checked the create is swapped for one that is just too big to get out of the room. At least I will not have newspaper headline "Man knocks down house to get rocket out of room!"

[rifleman]

yeah loved that program bit like this build cant get enough of it well done

[Richschindler]

That’s just insainly huge!!! I’m following along with great interest.

[beckychestney]

Originally Posted by Algebraist

I don't suppose anyone following this thread has been to the Great Lakes Science Center and has got some photos of any rockets there and wouldn't mind showing them?

We are very "rocket light" in the UK

Great Lakes Science Center - Ohio « VisitNASA.com - NASA Visitor Centers VisitNASA.com – NASA Visitor Centers



Explore | Great Lakes Science Center

That's the Skylab 3 CM if you're wondering (and I know you are! lol).

[Tonino]

Originally Posted by Algebraist

(...) Doing this part of the thrust structure was a little tricky and does (at least for me) require a couple of tools, so I thought I would quickly show what I have been using (...)

It was very interesting this review of your preferred tools and the description of the use you do of all of them.

It would deserve a separate thread itself...

Would be fine to confront our tool collections and the way we do our "everyday paper routine" !

[Algebraist]

Originally Posted by beckychestney

Great Lakes Science Center - Ohio « VisitNASA.com - NASA Visitor Centers VisitNASA.com – NASA Visitor Centers



Explore | Great Lakes Science Center

That's the Skylab 3 CM if you're wondering (and I know you are! lol).

What great links and photo, thanks Becky. Been checking it out. So much to see. I wish I could visit them all!

Just can't resist showing this picture from the Houston centre (it must be incredible to actually be next to it for real).



Two amazing machines. The Jumbo is my all time favourite aircraft, iconic and from that era of the Saturn V. I really like the tail of the shuttle carrier jumbo. Another jumbo I really like, is again owned by NASA. It's their flying observatory SOFIA. Here is a NASA video



It really is a marvel. It is just incredible how the telescope can adjust to all the tiny movements of the plane that are constantly happening and keep pointing to exact place in space with no wobble. What a plane. Very impressive the people who design and build these machines.

Kevin

[Algebraist]

Originally Posted by rifleman

yeah loved that program bit like this build cant get enough of it well done

Hello rifleman

Glad you could understand the candid camera comment because it is full of spelling errors (I am not very good with letters and words as I demonstrate in every post). Glad you are enjoying the thread and thanks for the comment.

Kevin

[Algebraist]

Originally Posted by Richschindler

That’s just insainly huge!!! I’m following along with great interest.

Hi Richschindler

That's just what my wife said (well, the first part at least). Glad you are enjoying the build. Thanks for posting your comment

Kevin