British train designs

[Siwi]

Originally Posted by yankeekilo

very cool trains, very nice touch on the design of the rail wheel

Both the 220 and the 222 have the bogie frames on the inside and disc brake surface on the outside to save weight, something that is becoming common on modern multiple units. But they're not so cool to ride on. The main issue is that they're simply not big enough for the long-distance routes they are used on, with only four cars and fewer than 200 seats, replacing longer trains hauled by a locomotive. The first operator, Virgin, had this strange idea of having three classes like an airline, because Virgin were also an airline, which meant there was way too much empty first class. They were designed to tilt to go faster round corners, but not only was this mechanism disabled soon as it caused problems, but it also made them very narrow inside because the train had to be able to fit the loading gauge even if the tilt mechanism failed and went the wrong way. They have a huge amount of the interior taken up by a large toilet in every car, which reduces the seats, and the toilets have always smelled right from introduction. Bike spaces are difficult to use as again too narrow. The luggage shelf above seats is really tiny and you have to squash your bag in. Also being diesel they are pretty noisy inside. And the front end is kind of ugly too.

[Siwi]

Haven't updated this thread in a while. Been working on several designs, although the majority of my time was spent on getting the 2 HAP kits ready for Ecards. The full list of current projects goes something like:


N scale GO transit bilevels: just need wheelsets designing, test build end car and design locomotive(s)
Mk.1 EMUs: 3 CEP test built, have some side repaints done for 4 CEP, 4 VEP and 4 CIG which need the fronts and underframes designing and test building
Class 313 and Class 150 (Mk3): designed and first test builds done, needs revision on roofline and cab end details plus underframe and running gear.

HO scale Class 20: still in design, need to do formers, interior cab, underframe and running gear and a second test build
In my head: HO scale D stock, HO scale Class 158.



At the moment I'm working on some more London Underground types, the A stock and the 1995/1996 stock. And with those, I'm excited to be working out a way to get more realistic windows. I hit on the idea to put printed interior detail on an inner layer which is covered in clear plastic, so we get the window shine but not have to make a tiny full interior. The 1996 stock was first designed without this, and I then looked at what I needed to revise like the angle of the ends and the door proportions. It doesn't help that I had inaccurate blueprints to start of with, but managed to find some official ones from the extra car procurement in 2007.



Photo 1: my first test build (with inaccuracies) and the part sheet for V2.


Photo 2 shows the windows and the under-doors layer attached on one side. The green lines are the grab poles inside the car. The only downside here is that the 'glass' is not flush with the outer layer but I don't have a good idea how to achieve that.



Photo 3: I realised the glue tabs on the ends would be better stuck if I trimmed the base layer. I do however need to make the roof profile match the protruding central part of these ends!

[Siwi]

Second test build is complete. The concept basically works, and the doors are a good scale thickness, but the design needs a longitudinal former of some kind to allow the roof to be attached better and help keep the ends at 90 degrees vertical.


The wheel bogies and underside are pretty simple, as space is so limited under the floor there is no external boxes fixed there like on mainline trains. Have a look at how thin the clearances are between these deep-level 'tube' trains and the tunnels.

[Siwi]

The third prototype of the car body is put together. I think I have it working now, with just a small fix to the central former to give it more surface at the top to glue the skin layers over. I'll do something different with the ends too as they essentially are glue tabs the size of the entire outer piece and are difficult to line up with the outer skin.


The construction is made as follows: an internal former, with a T profile, is stuck inside the floor and sides piece, which meet and are joined at the roof and the base. The windows of this are cut out and interior depictions are glued inside, with clear plastic or adhesive film to create the glass. Over that layer is glued the inner door and roof layer, again with interior depictions, and on the very outside the actual doors and the outer roof, which covers the join where underlayers are attached to the former. The car ends are currently two layers with yet again interior depictions on the inner layer, which is part of the floor piece. I crimped the corners to get more realistic curved edges.


Pleased to say I got a realistic shade of red for the doors on this go too.

[jamoldover]

Originally Posted by Siwi

The full list of current projects goes something like:


N scale GO transit bilevels: just need wheelsets designing, test build end car and design locomotive(s)

Which locomotive(s) are you planning on doing? I may be able to help you out with some scale plans, depending on which ones they are.

Originally Posted by Siwi

... I'm excited to be working out a way to get more realistic windows. I hit on the idea to put printed interior detail on an inner layer which is covered in clear plastic, so we get the window shine but not have to make a tiny full interior. ..."

Very clever! That works quite well in the small scale of the model.

[Siwi]

Originally Posted by jamoldover

Which locomotive(s) are you planning on doing? I may be able to help you out with some scale plans, depending on which ones they are.

Hey, thanks for stopping by. The main type of loco I wanted to design is the current MP40 and MP54, which I found some 3-views for. The curved front will be the main design challenge. The F59 looks easier to design in paper. As the same bilevel cars are used by Caltrain, Coaster and some other operators in the North America it would make sense to also design their locos, which are the same or very similar. Being a Brit I have much less knowledge about American locos compared to European.

[jamoldover]

I agree with you that the F59 would be easier to design, since it's all flat parts. I don't have plans for that one, although I think I've seen some partial views online.

FWIW, though, I believe the nose structure of the MP40/MP54 doesn't use compound curves, but is made of of a combination of flat sheets and simple curves. If you look at photos taken from different angles, it gets a little clearer. You may also find the photos posted here useful - while they show the construction of an MP36-3S, the cab design is the same, and it's clear from the unpainted construction photos that it's mostly made up of flat pieces as well.

Here's what I have for the MP40 - it may be the same as the ones you already have, but if not, you're welcome to them.

[Siwi]

Thank you, these are very useful. As a token of thanks I would be happy to send you a copy of some bilevel cars and, when designed, one of these locos to test build. Today I modified and textured series 1-10 GO Transit bilevel cars. Rapido Trains models have a very helpful history of these units summerising the changes between different series.


I could probably do an F59 by just tracing over photos as long as I have the overall dimensions. There seems to be a more modern version with a streamlined front too! As a European it feels very odd to see diesel locos pulling commuter rail sets, as almost everywhere here uses EMUs, or at least electric locos in push-pull. There are some little lines in South Wales and one short line on London Overground using DMUs, but no loco hauled services.



My initial plan for the front of the MP loco is to divide it into three upright curving strips corresponding to the width of the cab windows, and see if that produces a sufficiently good compound curve. At this scale each will only be around 5mm wide, so adding more sections are unlikely to be sucessful. Recessing the headlights is an interesting consideration too. I will likely put a couple of lengthwise profile formers here. Of course, it would all be easier in HO scale, and I will probably do these in 1:87 as well, but even a shorter trainset would be a huge model for the display space I have available here.

[jamoldover]

Re the F59PH: The drawings on this page may help - they're done at a measured scale of 4px/inch. I was also able to find the attached drawing in my files that should also help.

I did find these drawings for the streamlined F59PHI (isolated cab to reduce vibration felt by the crew) that are at the same 4px/inch scale. You will need additional drawings for that one, though, since the locomotive has a more complex shape, with the sides raised above the height of the roof toward the rear of the locomotive. That was done to create a visual alignment between the locomotive and the double-deck (not bilevel) passenger equipment used in California.

There are several reasons you tend to find diesel locomotive-hauled commuter trains in North America. Most places have separate ownership between the commuter operation (usually run by a governmental agency at some level) and the tracks they use (usually owned by a for-profit freight hauling railroad). There's little to no incentive for the freight railroads to pay to install overhead catenary that they're not going to use, and they don't want to let the commuter agency pay for it since adding electrification usually also restricts the allowable size of the equipment that the freight railroad can run (since wires need clearance). Passenger traffic density is also a lot lower in most places in North America outside of the Boston-Washington "Northeast Corridor" (and in particular the areas around New York City and Philadelphia) than it is in most places in Europe.

[Siwi]

Built a prototype of the driving car, which is otherwise identical to the trailer car, which allowed me to test the underside and bogies. Did this without glazing and fake interior to see how that looked, and as a result will be printing the interior detail on all glass layers so it looks better even if the cutouts and glazing are not used. I noticed some small corrections to make such as the outer layer not reaching down to the floor, the inside former not being ideal, and toning down the black lines to make it less cartoonish. Also sent this file to a beta builder.


This model has involved a lot of work and testing, because it's a new structure compared to my other builds. But once it's ready to go I can use the same construction to create the 'doors on outside' 1992, 2009 and forthcoming 2024 stocks, and the new Glasgow Subway trains. It will also work for some other modern metro types from around the world.