CSS Missouri

[rebelatsea]

I should have added that, as originally completed Missouri had two gunports abreast the centrewheel, but by her surrender these had been moved further forward. Due to the machinery configuration there could not have been a stern pivot.

[Ironcladman]

Hi,

I find more ironclads everytime I dig into the US archives! Everybody wanted to build ironclads back then but alot never got built.

It is pretty clear that the pic of the model is not what the CSS Missouri looked like really, but I don't think that painting your talking about is really what it looked like either, drawings and paintings are notoriously misrepresentations of ships most of the time, I still go with the written documentation of the officer who inspected and documented the actual ship. Your drawing is probably closer than both, but we will never know without actual plans and photos. (Heck even plans and photos don't always work.....plans get changed and ships are modified so you really gotta build a ship and say this is what it looked like at this time)

The CSS Muskogee was started almost finished.....then butcher converted into the CSS Jackson. It was sunk and raised a little while back and it is a museum now. The second ship of the contract was never built.

Yep, it's pretty clear the pic of the model at the beginning of this thread is of the original design for the CSS Muskogee before it was converted to the CSS Jackson. The documentation supports that and your drawings confirm it!

But I still love them all.....so I am gonna build them all!

Originally Posted by rebelatsea

There may have been other "new build" designs for centrewheel ironclads, apart from CSS Louisiana, but these two are the only ones, so far as I am aware ,to have survived.

Missouri has her origins in a plan by Porter for a riverine craft. the plan is by Dean Stehman, redrawn for a half draft by Robert Holcombe, itself redrawn from the damaged original draft. Unfortunately this drawing has been used many times to represent CSS Missouri.

The drawing of CSS Missouri is based on the painting by a Union Seaman, Stauffer, and depicts the ship in June 1865. Her ordnance at the date was 1-32pdr sb truck mounted amidships, 1-9" sb & 1 -11" sb pivot mounted to fire port, starboard and bow.
There is little doubt about it's authenticity.

The "Muscogee" design has it's origins in a plan and specification drawn up for a 2 vessel contract with James Martin at New Orleans, to be supervised by I.N.Brown.

The contract called for 2 vessels:

195ft OA x 58ft EX x 8ft 6ins DPH, approx 10 -11ft D, 1,454 tons
Machinery by John Armstrong of New Orleans, 1 x 24ft centrewheel, 7 knots.
2 pivot and 6 broadside guns. iron prow suitable for use as a ram.
4ins iron armour on 20ins wood at 40 degree slope.
Both vessels were under construction by 27 February 1862 according to a report to Secretary Mallory from Brown, and presumed lost when New Orleans fell to the Union.

[Ironcladman]

Hi,

I will try to put all the letters together to let you read them from the officers and men who built the CSS Missouri, I will still go with the letters over the painting.

Yep, there were a load of gun ports.....but nooooo guns to put in them cause the rebs were stealing from each other.....this ship was supposed to get guns and machinery 3 seperate different times but people kept stealing from each other or ordering them to go elsewhere, cause they thought they're need was greater.....crap like that is probably what helped the rebs loose the war. (In the letters and orders they sound like a bunch of two headed chiwawas.....make alot of noise, go round and round and never do crap!) (The south seemed to self centered, bunch O redneck hillbillies!)

But I digress.....

I will convert this model into the CSS Muskogee, and I have started a CSS Jackson already, and now I will start a new CSS Missouri from your drawing but add what the officers inspection adds to it!

We will build them ALLLLLLLLL!

I like your third pic of the Centre Wheel Ironclad the most.....so I will build one of them too!

I don't care.....if it is an Ironclad.....I am on it!

Originally Posted by rebelatsea

I should have added that, as originally completed Missouri had two gunports abreast the centrewheel, but by her surrender these had been moved further forward. Due to the machinery configuration there could not have been a stern pivot.

[rebelatsea]

Stauffer painted that from life - how much more accurate do you need ! I'm working on a history of the CS ironclads with plans, I'm up to version 7, as fast as I think it's ready someone comes in with a new plan,picture, or info.
One thing I will tell you is that an awful lot of rubbish has been published about these ships.
I'm also supplying Corey with plans for his kits.

[Ironcladman]

Hi,

I feel your frustration! I have been researching and writing about ironclads for 40 years now.....and, your right I would even goes as far as to say that about 90% of the information out there is inaccurate in someway, but correct on some points. It is a matter of weeding through it and.....then giving it the Occum's Razor Test. (I think I spelled that right)

All the books I have written have a notice in them. (Notice: The information, drawings, and plans in this book have been compiled from all information available at the time of publishing. This book is a fluid document and as more information is made available or found it will be updated.)

So start publishing them things.....cause you will never have a finished book that is 100% correct.....and even if it is.....people will still dispute it as inaccurate.....cause they're dingleberries and it doesn't fit their version of how the universe works. (This is why the Volume [Version] system was invented. Well.....not really but it's a good story and I ain't stickin to it.....until sumptin better comes along!)

We are talking about history.....and we weren't there.....and people are just as falable back then as now. It is like that game where you have a line of people and repeat a short story to the person next to you, and they pass it on.....by the time it gets to the end of the line.....you got a whole new story.

Cool CT is da shizbazizzal masterclad builder!

Originally Posted by rebelatsea

Stauffer painted that from life - how much more accurate do you need ! I'm working on a history of the CS ironclads with plans, I'm up to version 7, as fast as I think it's ready someone comes in with a new plan,picture, or info.
One thing I will tell you is that an awful lot of rubbish has been published about these ships.
I'm also supplying Corey with plans for his kits.

[rebelatsea]

I make you 100% right ! and yes you did spell Occam's right.

[Ironcladman]

Hi,

I am always right because I am left, or sumpting like that, but who cares! I didn't spell Occam's right, I put a U in it, so was wrong but now I'm right.....right! Bud I diegress!

Ok, so I am gonna build the CSS Muscogee, that was started then butcher built into the CSS Jackson, and I am gonna build the CSS Jackson, and I am gonna build the CSS Missouri from your drawing, and I gonna build the CSS CentreWheel cause it is neat.....ok, is there any otters we need to build?

I am getting a reeeeeeally long lists of builds.....but I ain't built nutin yet! OoooYYY!

But I am havin Fun! Am I right!

Originally Posted by rebelatsea

I make you 100% right ! and yes you did spell Occam's right.

[Zathros]

40 years, you're Old Fart Ironcladman, as I am Old Fart Ekranoplanman. Fo'shizzle! At last, the missing link!!

[Ironcladman]

HI,

Lancalot Link Secret Chimp!

Originally Posted by Zathros

40 years, you're Old Fart Ironcladman, as I am Old Fart Ekranoplanman. Fo'shizzle! At last, the missing link!!

[nichrm]

Rebelatsea
You stated in this post "The drawing of CSS Missouri is based on the painting by a Union Seaman, Stauffer, and depicts the ship in June 1865" Where is the painting? do you have a copy you could share? Is this the same Stauffer as Enssign David M Stauffer of the Mississippi Squadron that drew the CSS Pioneer? Thanks.
Ray Nichols