Which Shipyard model?

**jyduchene** · #1 07-29-2011, 04:05 PM

I am a fan of the Patrick Obrain Master and Commander series. I am wondering which of the Shipyard models would be close to the HMS Surpise.

There is HMS Mercury, Cleopatra and Enterprise. Any knowledgable tall ship readers care to express an opinion?

Thanks, John

**doctormax** · #2 07-29-2011, 04:22 PM

i found this on wikipedia it may give you a clue to the ship to do
Ships in "Master and Commander"

The British:

HMS Audacious - Ship of the line and flagship
HMS Niobe - frigate
HMS Pallas - frigate
HM Brig Sophie - brig sloop
Burford -
HMS Généreux - 74 gun Third rate. Captured from France in 1800.
Tartarus - bomb-ketch

A bit more research done i found out that it is was an arrogant class ship which was similar to the Bellina i think there is a Bellona in the shipyard kits if i am right.

The "Arrogant"-class ships of the line were a class of twelve 74-gun third rate ships designed by Sir Thomas Slade for the Royal Navy.
Design
The "Arrogant" class ships were designed as a development of Slade's previous "Bellona" class, sharing the same basic dimensions. During this period, the original armament was the same across all the ships of the common class, of which the "Arrogant" class ships were members. Two ships were ordered on 13 December 1758 to this design (as the same time as the fourth and fifth units of the "Bellona" class), and a further ten ships were built to a slightly modified version of the "Arrogant" design from 1773 onwards.

**birder** · #3 07-29-2011, 04:37 PM

The Surprise was a 28 gun frigate I think (Cleopatra). Those who have been here awhile know well (too well?) of my build of her started in the No Comfort And Joy Challenge of a few years back now, and finished in the Ship section. The ship in the movie is the HMS Rose, a repro built quite a few years ago but true to the same time frame. I think she is still aloat in San Diego, Ca.

**birder** · #4 07-29-2011, 05:01 PM

Although the Surprise is a fictional vessel, several actual vessels are mentioned in Patrick O'Brian's work in this series as Doctormax shows above. The Hms Cleopatra was an actual vessel that in fact has an existing contemporary model in Greenwich (NMM) She was of the Amazon class. Here is my favorite model:
Warship; Frigate; Amazon class; Fifth rate; 32 guns - National Maritime Museum

**RdK** · #5 01-09-2013, 07:22 AM

Hi!

I asked myself this question, too. My opinion is that the Enterprize from Shipyard would fit best for a rebuild into the HMS Surprize.

Rgds,
RdK

**georgerutherford1861** · #6 01-09-2013, 07:50 AM

I agree with RdK, from a quick look at the catalog Enterprize would be the best place to start. One item of note, by the timeline of the books the ornamentation on the ship would have been much more like the cover paintings for the novels, not quite as flashy as what they show on the website (which in itself I am sure is fine for the 1774 timeline that they place their model in).

Anyway, my 2 cents worth. It would be a fantastic project, good luck if you take it on!

Doug

**firdajan2** · #7 01-09-2013, 10:36 AM

Originally, there weren´t the HMS Surprize survived till - after 1805, just the ship of the same name - a 28-gun sixth rate launched in 1774 and sold in 1783.

See also Nmm museum pages.

The ship in the movie is The Rose, build in USA.

See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Surprise_(replica_ship).

Jan

**Jim Nunn** · #8 01-09-2013, 10:40 PM

The rumor before Shipyard published The HMS Mercury that the next model was to be the HMS Surprise. Perhaps copyright and royalty issues forced Shipyard to make a few changes. The Surprise was a captured French ship and described as having finer lines and was faster than British ships of the same class of small 28 gun frigates. I would interpolate from this information that the Surprise would have had a sharper prowl closer to a Clipper bow. The Mercury in the photos on Shipyards web site does appear to have a sharp bow and not the usual blunt bow like the Hunter.

No need to ask, yes I have read the O'Brian series of books twice and they are a favorite of mine.

Jim Nunn

**Bluenoser** · #9 01-10-2013, 07:13 AM

HMS Rose (replica) was built in Lunenburg, Nova Scotia as was the HMS Bounty (replica) which was just tragically lost. Both came from the same shipyard I believe.

The clipper bow would be unkown until the mid 1800's and probably derived from the evolution of the sharp and rakish Baltimore clippers in the search for speed.

The faster French frigates likely had finer lines below the waterline.

**georgerutherford1861** · #10 01-10-2013, 08:51 AM

Perhaps to compare with the Shipyard model you can find the original HMS Surprise's plans online for reference.

The Ships of Jack Aubrey

Geoff Hunt, who did the cover paintings for the books, wrote another book called "The Frigate Surprise" which covers both the real Surprise and the fictional one, and the differences between them (such as, I believe, in the books the Surprise is fitted with a larger mainmast meant for a 38 gun frigate or something like that). The book I believe is out of print, pricey on Amazon, perhaps one can find it cheaper somewhere or pray that it gets reprinted in the future. I know I want a copy eventually.

Doug