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  #71  
Old 04-06-2021, 02:11 PM
Don Boose's Avatar
Don Boose Don Boose is offline
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Mike -

Thanks for sharing your cogitations about the Mysterious Middle Passarelle Deck. I seem to recall a "passarelle" discussion in one of Carl's threads. Perhaps he will see this conversation and weigh in.

Given that impenetrable wall, I would not bother with the invisible deck unless you were planning a removable superstructure to render it visible.

Incidentally, I finally took a peek at the comments on Neptune in my copy of Ropp (Theodore Ropp, The Development of a Modern Navy: French Naval Policy 1871-1904, Annapolis, MD: Naval Institute Press, 1987, revised edition of 1937 dissertation edited by Stephen S. Roberts).

He doesn't say too much. On page 58 and 59, Ropp mentions the four first-class battleships Hoche, Marceasu, Magenta and Neptune laid down simultaneously in 1880-81. This as part of a discussion of design and construction methodology that included beginning ships "before their designs were completely settled" and then immediately incorporating "every gadget invented during their construction." He then describes the initial design and subsequent design changes of Magenta as an example, noting that one result of all the design changes during construction was that it took thirteen years before Magenta was completed. On page 59, Roberts added an 1887 image of Neptune from the U.S. Naval Historical Center (as the NHHC was called then) collection. I am sure you have a better-quality copy of this image, but I scanned it faute de mieux.

On page 97, Ropp notes that the four sister ships were begun in 1880 and goes on to say, "As originally conceived, all had the same high freeboard, armored waterline and barbette towers, moderate speed, secondary 5.5-inch secondary armament, and three 100-ton guns [13.4-inches, changed during construction to four 13.4-inch guns {p.58}] as the Baudin.

On page 301, as part of a discussion on French naval gunnery, Ropp notes that during 1897 trials, Neptune achieved "26 percent hits at 3,000 to 4,000 yards with the new method . . ."

And that's it for Neptune from this source.

I look forward to continuing to observe your superb build.

Don
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French Ironclad Neptune 1:250 Scale-french_cuirasse_neptune_1887_ropp_modern_navy_p59.jpg  
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  #72  
Old 04-06-2021, 05:38 PM
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Michael Mash Michael Mash is offline
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Hello Don: Yes, a similar discussion ensued while Carl was building “Magenta”. He finally decided to leave the interior alone, except for the boat storage structures. There is a large opening at the stern end of the top deck to raise boats up from within. And as you can see on the side view of image 46 (at the top), there are several boats shown stored inside. Carl’s Magenta build report is here on this site, and his elaborate structure for the boat storage is worth looking at. I think the French Naval Architects created the unusual boat storage and deployment systems to frustrate the modelers of the 21st century.

Also the information you provided from the book by “Theodore Ropp, The Development of a Modern Navy” will be very helpful. The image you showed is one I had not seen before. It appears to be early in Neptune’s career, based on the paint scheme. Also, your notes from the book have corrected an error I have been making up to this point. Observers of this project may have noticed that I have been referring to the four main guns as 305mm (12-inch). As you pointed out, the guns were 13.4-inch guns, which would make them about 340mm. The French navy was not alone in the use of 13 inch guns at this time. If I am correct, the U.S. Navy used 13 inch guns on BB-1 Indiana, BB-2 Massachusetts and BB-3 Oregon.

“ . . . planning a removable superstructure to render it visible?” . . .
Indeed! Perhaps I need to give that some thought.

Mike
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  #73  
Old 04-07-2021, 04:09 PM
Royaloakmin Royaloakmin is offline
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I suspect you need it for structural reasons, but if you canít see anything on it, no need to detail it. Do you know what the cabins under it look like?
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  #74  
Old 04-07-2021, 05:28 PM
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Michael Mash Michael Mash is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royaloakmin View Post
I suspect you need it for structural reasons, but if you canít see anything on it, no need to detail it. Do you know what the cabins under it look like?

If I am correct, there appear to be, perhaps 3 cabins. There is no further details showing doors or windows in them. They are simply box shapes.

Mike
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  #75  
Old 04-09-2021, 04:28 PM
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Neptune

I am waiting for some information about, I asked for, as I am not able to deal with it. Really puzzling.
Note that Neptune was never painted gray, but black/grey (this latter grey slightly different from the one adopted from 1908 onwards), as she was scrapped soon after our fleet was painted all grey by 1908.
In 1884, a Brennus was set on keel, along with Charles-Martel, following the Neptune/Magenta/Hoche/Marceau (begun 1880) whose hulls are close one another, but soon scrapped, as Amiral Aube decided to stop ironclad construction to benefit torpedo boats. The other Brennus was begun later on, being on duty dec 16, 1896.
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  #76  
Old 04-09-2021, 11:01 PM
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abhovi abhovi is offline
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I really enjoy your sort of modeling Michael.
Ab
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  #77  
Old 04-18-2021, 06:42 AM
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Michael Mash Michael Mash is offline
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09 Ė Middle Passerelle Deck? - No

Thank you Don, Fred, Renaud and Ab.

My discussions with Don, Fred and Renaud have helped bring more clarity to some of the details discussed previously. Continued study of the drawings have revealed that the parts I was interpreting as a middle “passerelle” deck were more likely framework for the top deck. So image number 48 is not correct. Also, the top deck has now been modified. A more precise approach is to create the elements that I am certain of, such as capstans, stored boats, ladders and several small cabins. Perhaps then I can add a few other minor details that these things would have required.

Image 50 is a good view of the new dust cover (Plexiglas, wood and screws). The large round black card objects are the four barbettes for the 13.4-inch guns. Images 52, 53 and 54 show my ladder device in action. The top piece slides forward and backward as the steps are installed to the frame. The yellow pieces of paper seen on the device are “post-it-note” material. The adhesive is perfect for holding the parts in place while the glue dries. The ladders and the cabins are made of paper.

I may be pausing at this point to wait for some additional “new” information being sent to me by Renaud. I am looking forward to seeing it.

Kind Regards,
Mike


Attached Thumbnails
French Ironclad Neptune 1:250 Scale-050-dust-cover.jpg   French Ironclad Neptune 1:250 Scale-051-305-mm-barbette-parts.jpg   French Ironclad Neptune 1:250 Scale-052-ladder-device.jpg   French Ironclad Neptune 1:250 Scale-053-ladder-device.jpg   French Ironclad Neptune 1:250 Scale-054-ladder-device.jpg  

French Ironclad Neptune 1:250 Scale-055-barbettes-cabins-ladders.jpg  
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  #78  
Old 04-18-2021, 07:36 AM
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Don Boose Don Boose is offline
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Exceptionally fine craftsmanship, as always, Mike.

It looks to me as if that industrial strength dust cover will protect Neptune for the ages, and it has an appropriate age-of-steam-and-steel look.

Your ladder device is a good-looking model in and of itself.

Don
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  #79  
Old 04-19-2021, 11:22 AM
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sharunas sharunas is offline
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Perfect! Ladders look neat.
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  #80  
Old 04-24-2021, 04:13 PM
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Pretty work Mike, are you building more tan one ship at a time? Your workspace looks far too tidy.....
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