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  #141  
Old 02-17-2024, 08:42 PM
Don Boose's Avatar
Don Boose Don Boose is offline
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Looks terrific!

Don
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  #142  
Old 02-18-2024, 01:20 PM
rjccjr rjccjr is offline
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CL-52 update

Hi All;

Here's an instance where neglecting good habits can come back to haunt you. Years back, around 2015, when SMS Seydlitz was under development, a single sheet drawing that showed the profile and deck views in color, had been the usual practice. Recently, where the actual ship was still in existence, as in DD-850 and DD-793, and plenty of photos were available, the practice was neglected.

Hoping that the tremors would subside, I decided to draw a rigging plan for CL-52. There was a color profile drawing available, so that was fairly easy. Then an "Oh Oh!" showed up. No plan view. There were four deck sections available for CL-52, but they were only for the weather deck level and the rigging plan would span two of them showing all decks. Aaargh!

Now the drawing for a plan view of the entire hull is under way, which should have been done way back at the start. Fortunately the four deck sections in scale are still on file, so the hardest part of the drawing is done, but they are in a nearly black color. Not very useful for a rigging plan. The rig spanned parts of sections 2 and 3. So, they were cropped and the color removed. Then the series of deck levels had to be added and that isn't easy. Photo 1r shows the area involved on the prototype. Photo 2r shows the general arrangement for SMS Seydlitz with the bulkhead lines and details in color. Photo 3r shows the profile of CL-52 in ocean gray. It's shot at a slightly inclined angle to make impractical for direct copy on line. The last photo shows the incomplete plan view for a rigging diagram. This will remain uncolored for clarity. As you can see there are segments of various deck levels in view. Getting everything in scale to line up properly is going to take some time. So the next couple of weeks are going to be spent doing the entire plan view in scale. Then a single sheet drawing in scale will be completed. Theoretically that should make the top view of the rigging easy. Uh huh! Seems that this has been said before. Oh well, on with the project.

Regards, rjccjr
Attached Thumbnails
USS Juneau CL-52-2-16-24-1r.jpg   USS Juneau CL-52-2-16-24-2r.jpg   USS Juneau CL-52-2-16-24-3r.jpg   USS Juneau CL-52-2-16-24-4r.jpg  
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  #143  
Old 02-25-2024, 03:20 PM
rjccjr rjccjr is offline
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CL-52 update

HI all;

This has been a peculiar week, but a lot of work has been accomplished. It started off with a root canal, not really a favorite undertaking but necessary. Yesterday morning I came down stairs and the four tank smoke canister that disappeared from the stern of the prototype about a month ago had mysteriously reappeared on the kitchen counter. Have you ever heard the line, "Honey,I don't know if it's important but...? Then there's the crack between the arm rest and the seat cushion of the recliner, which seems to swallow anything small but critical, like a nose wheel . The canister assembly had somehow fallen down behind the clothes hamper and the bottom step of the cellar stairs. Of, course the canister had been replaced shortly after the original had escaped. It will be retained in case the replacement tries a similar antic. I have the same kind of fun with pills. It's part of being an old modeler on medication, but at least it isn't plastic, which tends to get ground up in the vacuum cleaner. Hate that noise, especially when it's an aircraft canopy.

There are not many pictures this time, but what there is happens to be significant. First there is now a drawing of the mid ships section, which is clear enough to start laying in the lines. Between that and the profile view work can start on setting up the rigging. The second drawing is a plan view to scale. It's pretty well along and fairly accurate. Needless to say several minor but annoying inaccuracies in the parts drawings showed up. Most of them were corrected. The parts for the after 1.1 director had been inadvertently omitted and are now included. This has turned out to be a very complex undertaking, but is well along and a real education in research. It's amazing how many alterations occurred to a ship whose career was only nine months long. For example in February of 1942, Juneau had four spars, but by September there were only two. Of course that required an alteration to the rigging.

Thought is being given to the next project. Some calculations are under way for The USS Princeton and The USS Helena. It's already clear that either one is going to be too darned big. Oh well!

Regards rjccjr
Attached Thumbnails
USS Juneau CL-52-2-16-24-3rrig-profile.jpg   USS Juneau CL-52-2-21-24-rig-plan.jpg   USS Juneau CL-52-plan-view-1.jpg  
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  #144  
Old 03-03-2024, 04:00 PM
rjccjr rjccjr is offline
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CL-52 update

Hi All;

During this session the rigging profile was completed, a complete plan view was accomplished and the rigging lines were started in a plan segment. While the plan view to scale was being developed I discovered that the spars on the prototype were out of scale. The spars on both masts needed to be lengthened. The foremast spar was considerably longer than that on the after mast. Both were corrected. Photo 1r shows the original spars just before removal. Photo 2r shows the originals next to the replacements on the cutting mat. Photo 3r shows the new spars from the rear and 5r is a frontal view. Photo 6r shows the replacements in silhouette. The last shot gives a good idea of how a small change affects the overall impression of the model. Now it's a matter of waiting out the tremors and coming up with a flag.

While all this was going on, the information gathering stage for CVL-23 was initiated. The starting date was, appropriately enough, Leap year day, as in leaping into the unknown. This time the drawings will commence with a general view to scale. There will be no repeat of the error made with CL-52. Right away I went to navsource and The San Francisco Maritime Museum. The result was a number of good photographs and an online copy of the booklet of general plans for Independence Class Light carriers. It's only a start, but it's a good one. At this early stage, I have no clue of how long it will take, or how it will be done. Neither is there any idea of just how air group 23 is going to be fabricated in 1/192 scale. That's the way they all start.

Regards, rjccjr
Attached Thumbnails
USS Juneau CL-52-3-3-24-1r.jpg   USS Juneau CL-52-3-3-24-2r.jpg   USS Juneau CL-52-3-3-24-3r.jpg   USS Juneau CL-52-3-3-24-4r.jpg   USS Juneau CL-52-3-3-24-5r.jpg  

USS Juneau CL-52-3-3-24-6r.jpg  
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  #145  
Old 03-03-2024, 05:51 PM
Michael Mash's Avatar
Michael Mash Michael Mash is offline
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An aircraft carrier is coming.
That will be a big model at 1:192 scale.
Looking forward to it.
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  #146  
Old 03-10-2024, 12:44 PM
rjccjr rjccjr is offline
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Cv-23

Hi All;

The purpose of this entry is to demonstrate the connection between research and accuracy and to give some idea why these models take so long. The basic notion underlying an undertaking like this is that any model can only be as accurate as the amount of information that the modeler brings to it. Research begins before the model is started , continues for the duration of the build and often continues beyond. Obviously, building a model straight from a kit is putting faith that the designer knew what he was doing. Sometimes he does and sometimes he doesn't. The verification process is research. Having several such undertakings over the years, there are a number of lessons, which come to light. One is that there is no such thing as a perfect model. Ever! Moreover no one knows everything about a ship. It's the pursuit of a good model that drives one to be good at it and once you start out the process is cumulative. By the time you finish one, you probably know more about your model than anyone. You become your own worst critic because you know where your own mistakes are. So here we go, right from the real start.

From the beginning there are a couple of principles that are important. First: booklets of general plans are extracts done in smaller scale than the actual drawings usually in 1/192 scale. The original plans, generally in 1/48 scale, are usually loaded with alterations even before the keel is laid. Alterations vary in scale. They apply to the ship from keel laying to launch. They do not include any changes that occur during outfitting, or commissioning. Second: Getting accurate basic dimensions and converting them to the scale of your intended model is critical. Third: photographs are more reliable than drawings. That one is a real eye opener. You quickly discover that "authorities" frequently disagree with each other, and the visible results are quite variable, but you also get some idea of why. You are going to have to learn to make your own decisions. No two ships ever quite alike and no single ship stays the same for very long.

Just to give you some idea of the real thing, In the shop, is an original inboard profile drawing of The USS Lexington CV-2 in 1/48 scale. It's drawn on linen and very fragile from age. In 1/48 scale it is well over 18 feet long. The original set of plans, from Quincy shipbuilders, contains over 5500 drawings, from battle cruiser to launch as an aircraft carrier. NO! I'm not going to try that.

To start, get all the information you can in print and on line about the ship and it's class. See CV-23 2r. Don't sort. Just collect. Include drawings, photographs and models, commercial and scratch. When you have a pile, get some ordinary file folders. Put everything in print into a folder for the particular ship that you want to model. Put information about the class in another folder and another folder for markings and paint schemes. Have a folder for miscellaneous items. This is for information about guns, aircraft, rafts, boats directors, radar, searchlights, anchors and any other equipment that applies to the ship. Include notes, dimensions drawings and photos. It you have a computer follow the same process. There is an incredible amount of information on line. Keep notes of the web addresses of good sources. One of those notes was that CV-23 was reclassified to CVL-23 on July 15, 1944. She only spent about three months as a CVL.

Now, pick a particular moment in your ships career, for the model you want to build. Ships change constantly and you need to focus on a particular time. When you start to sort things out, you'll realize how important this is. Even though that decision hasn't been made yet, I'm already in trouble with CV-23, because the booklet of general plans shows a profile with five inch guns fore and aft. Photos clearly show that there were none on her shakedown cruise. The first ship in the class did have them, but they were almost immediately removed. That's why it's important to have information about other ships in the class.

Next step is to do your math homework. Get the general dimensions of the ship, waterline length, length over all, waterline beam, maximum beam, draft etc. Convert the dimensions to inches. From there you can accurately determine the scale of your build. This data comes in handy even for kit models. Since the drawings for CV-23 are going to be done on a computer, the first drawing is going to be a profile view to establish the scale. There are many more to come, but if you don't get this right there is foul weather ahead. Once the port profile is complete, the starboard profile is next, because profiles are rarely symmetrical. These are followed by a waterline plan and deck plan. From there, the bulkheads can be generated. At the moment, the only thing to show after a months' work is the start of a profile to verify dimensions for scale. See CV-23 1r. It is very crude and includes a couple of insets from CVL-26 to provide a basis for dealing with the fore and aft armament. There is an awful lot of cleaning up to do, but at least the waterline is straight.

Regards, rjccjr
Attached Thumbnails
USS Juneau CL-52-cv-23-2r.jpg   USS Juneau CL-52-cv-23-1r.jpg  
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  #147  
Old 03-10-2024, 01:39 PM
mdesaxe mdesaxe is offline
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This is a really useful source for ideas and procedures. I would add one warning (and an example to illustrate it). It is critically important to know where exactly the maximum beam is located, especially for a waterline model.


The example comes from the three British large light cruisers Courageous, Glorious, and Furious. The first two were sisters and had a maximum beam of 81 feet, which was across the upper deck level. Furious was a semi-sister and had a maximum beam of 88 feet. Every builder of a waterline model of Furious seems to have assumed that this maximum beam also was at the upper deck level, so they made their hulls wider to match the dimension. Unfortunately, the maximum beam of 88 feet for Furious was across the underwater anti-torpedo bulges, which were 3.5 feet deeper on each side and projected beyond the upper deck edge, but are invisible on a waterline model. The maximum beam for Furious at the upper deck level was identical to the other two ships at 81 feet.


Thank you again for this very useful post.


Maurice
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  #148  
Old 03-17-2024, 02:34 PM
rjccjr rjccjr is offline
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CV-23 update

Hi All;

It has been a busy time since the last entry. First a plan drawing for CL-52 to scale was done. It will still be some time before an attempt can made to address the rigging. But there is plenty to do before that. All kinds of cleaning up to do, Easter is coming and the bunnies are busy laying eggs all over the back yard. Not an Easter egg in the lot. Gross!

During the research phase of this project the entries are of necessity text heavy and photo light. The emphasis is on gathering information and translating it to a set of plans suitable for designing parts, which will eventually become an accurate model.

The good part of having a booklet of general plans as a source, is that it saves a lot of measuring and calculating. Another is that everything is labeled. The difficult part is that photo reproduction captures every wrinkle spot, tear, piece of dirt, clot of dust or stray coffee stain on each sheet of the booklet. Occasionally you come across something that looks a lot like a dead worm. Actually it's an old elastic band that got rolled into the plan years ago. Another hazard is that the page usually wasn't level when the photo was taken.

Fortunately the plans are usually in the same scale that the build will be. However, it is still going to take a lot of cleaning before you get to that. For some reason I tend to pick one of the early ships in a class, which usually gets me in trouble. The booklet was for The USS Cabot CVL-26. The subject of this build is CVL-23, one of the first two light carriers. One problem was that it was sunk after thirteen months. I did manage to find a profile of USS Independence CVL-22, the class leader. Neither the that, nor Princeton matched the profile of The Cabot. Oh Joy!

The first stage of drawing is to set up a ruler in inches, which extends from bow to stern in length over all. Then, a profile, usually starboard, is generated. Extension lines are drawn from the ruler to the bow and stern at waterline and extreme ends. A single strait line is drawn just below the hull, to see if the profile is level or needs correction. Once that is accomplished, the drawing is cleaned and corrected. Label are removed and notes are taken. Later on, folders for information of separate items such as guns, boats and antennas will be established. The drawings for the first two ships of the class had provision for a five inch gun fore and aft. After the shakedown cruise, these were immediately deleted and twin 40mm guns were installed. Well, it was easy to remove the five inch guns, but directly inserting the 40mm arrangement of Cabot wouldn't work. That's where photographic interpretation begins. The 40mm batteries are blended in, but there's still a lot of cleaning to do. There are numerous standard items such as rafts boats, masts and antenna arrays that are usually copied and pasted onto separate drawings, then cleaned up corrected and blended back onto the profile drawing. That's about where it is at right now, as you can see in drawing 1r.

Once there is a valid profile done to scale, a profile of the other side, a waterline plan, and a top plan will be generated. Separate plans of the various deck levels will come after that. Part of the layout, uncleaned , is started as shown in drawing 2r. It will still be months before the first part of the frame is drawn.

Regards, rjccjr
Attached Thumbnails
USS Juneau CL-52-11r.jpg   USS Juneau CL-52-cv-23-1r.jpg   USS Juneau CL-52-cv-23-2r.jpg  
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  #149  
Old Today, 10:27 AM
rjccjr rjccjr is offline
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CV-23 update

Hi All;

Postings are likely to be erratic for a while. For one thing Easter is upon us and family doings have priority. Secondly there are medical and dental issues to be dealt with. Thirdly this project is in the drawing stage.

Here's what's going on in that department. The first parts of a mock up model are a central spine, a waterline plate and bulkheads spaced one inch apart from bow to stern. When that is finished, the hull sides and stern plate will be done, along with the weather deck. In this case there will be a hangar deck and a flight deck. It's a very fine thing to be retired so there isn't any deadline to be met. It's also encouraging to have used a similar process to arrive at CL-52, simply to have some idea of what comes next.

Fortunately, there is a usable booklet of general plans. Unfortunately, it has to be cleaned up before anything can be done with it. Years back several cad programs were tested. Free or inexpensive programs really don't work out well, for many reasons. So plain old Microsoft Paint is used here. Oh yeah, it can get really tedious, but you can get good results after some experience.

Right now a port profile in 192nd scale is under way. Next will be a starboard profile and a waterline plan in the same scale. Drawing 1 shows port and starboard profiles. Unsurprisingly, it's really big. At the top and bottom are scale rulers. In the right hand corner are a set of color chips and a scale conversion chart of basic dimensions for the drawings in 192 scale. Only the port profile is being cleaned at the moment. Some parts have been removed, pasted above the profile, cleaned up and then grafted back to the drawing. Drawing 2 shows the partially cleaned stern to scale. Drawing 3 shows the uncleaned starboard stern to scale just for comparison. It might look halfway decent, but that is not the case. For one thing the drawing was photographed at an angle and the ship is down by the bow. That's going to be fun to fix. Drawing 4 shows the difference that the cleaning process makes. Some common parts like boats, rafts, guns, chocks and anchors can be cut and pasted numerous times to insure uniformity. The draftsmen actually used a set of templates on the actual drawings. When it comes time to draw the parts these will be adjusted for accuracy.

Regards, rjccjr
Attached Thumbnails
USS Juneau CL-52-cv-23-1.jpg   USS Juneau CL-52-cv-23-2.jpg   USS Juneau CL-52-cv-23-3.jpg   USS Juneau CL-52-cv-23-4.jpg  
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