Viking Longboat Build

[paperairforce]

Thanks all for your replies -

One thing I have wondered is which is correct, Longboat or Longship - or both? It seems Longship is the more common name, but for some reason I must have learned it first as "Viking Longboat" - which like my mama's pie is what I prefer to this day! So I decided to go with longboat in the title because I like it, but I couldn't find any explanation as to which is correct in case anyone knows about this! I did find reference to both, but more so to "Longship".

Thanks Siwi and Thumb dog for all the tips. Unfortunately, I had already done my first scan before that post, and learned the hard way about the perforations! After taking the trouble to scan, I realized I couldn't see the perfortation lines demarking the "real" pieces - as the artwork looked like real pieces as it was. As such, I've decided to I will need to "free" all the diecut pieces first, and then probably mount them on to 11 x 17 sheets and then scan them again that way, so they can then be cut out as they really are.

Thumb dog - so I did scan them as size 11 x 17 as you were saying, I hope that will result in consistent scale throughout! That's one thing could *could* go wrong!

Siwi - good advice about twisting and banana boating. I think I'll use some doubled or tripled matt board for the keel, etc., and just hope that keeps it straight along with constant checking.

One thing I know I need to check is how I'm going to do the side planks (I believe there is a better technical term~) - either triple or quadruple mounted, or probably just on matt board. They'll need to be pretty stiff at that length in order not to look warped.

The ship needs to be big! Museum big. Attached is a picture of the shelf it will go on, which is 8.5 inches wide. I want it as big as it can get, so a beam of about 8 inches will result in a boat about 42 inches long. That should suffice! Currently on the shelf is an entirely too small, I believe, HMS Victory, chasing a horsehead.

[paperairforce]

Meanwhile, here is a pic of part of the instruction book, and a fantastic looking little book titled "The Vikings", "Masters of the Sea" That is in full color and looks very thorough - that I haven't read yet! I will report. The kit was apparently sold originally via Barnes and Noble bookstore - and for $19.95! (on the box). What a steal for this kit. I don't even know how they do that (or, yes we know how they do that but still), and it even includes some plastic oars which I won't be able to use, but will have to recreate in paper. Unfortunately, the kit no longer seems to be offered on Barnes. I wonder why and what happened to it.

[Thumb Dog]

Hi All,

And hi, paperairforce. That’s a big shelf to fill. Best of luck with your longship/boat.

A couple of rhetorical questions…did you scan and enlarge your set of plastic oars? Knowing how long the oars will be is worth knowing. And if you build a model with an 8 inch beam to sit on an 8 ½ inch wide shelf, how will you store the oars? Attached is a picture of how the Vikings did it, by stacking them on top of the uprights seen in your model’s instructions. New uprights might have to be scratch built to hold all of your new, scratch built oars.

I remember seeing the model in Barnes and Noble’s some time ago. But I didn’t pick it up as I was probably shy of the $20.

All for now.

Score and fold,

Thumb Dog

[paperairforce]

Thanks all for your replies and great information, websites, etc. Some beautiful reconstructions going on.

Thumbdog – thanks for tip and that picture! May I ask where you found it? It looks almost exactly like the ship I’m building, and I’d be willing to bet the source of that pic is the source of this model design. The kit otherwise does not say what exact type of ship this is (or I missed it!). But you're right of course, it looks similar to the other two you mentioned.

As to your questions – haven’t scanned the oars yet, I’m sure I would have realized that at some point! I suppose I will just be rolling tubes, and try to devise a 3d shape for the blades. I had thought about the shelf conundrum though, and figured I would either have just one side showing – or leave them out altogether. Your input allows a 3rd more realistic option, very helpful, thanks. Hope the kit supplied uprights will do.

That Leif Erikson is interesting, but doesn’t look like a very traditional Viking build? Looks to have more modern elements in it, I suppose to help ensure the safety of the crew.

Bigpetr – thanks for the link. Unfortunately my browser guard threw up all manner of alarms on it, though I’m sure that is typical for downloadable sites – so I decided to take it’s advice and “go back”. I’d be curious to know what model that was though, and what it looked like.

[paperairforce]

The build has progressed in my computer a little bit – lotsa work mounting, scanning, cutting, splicing, resizing! Thumbdog – I have run into all that you foretold. I first made the mistake (before my first post) of scanning the sheets as they came in the kit After all that, I realized that the perforated pieces are NOT the same as what is inked on the sheets! I should have known better, I’ve done this before – though it’s been some years. So I decided the best way forward was to remove all the pieces and remount them on 11 x 17 sheets – with tacks of glue so they don’t move – and rescan that way, and with the scanner set to 11 x 17 on each sheet (rather than automatic!) so hopefully their original size will be preserved.

What’s more, this kit has some beautiful double sided print work – so that pieces are colored on both sides. Some of those had to be scanned once, then flipped, remounted, then scanned again. Even worse, the original kit has what amounts to 11 x 34 (or so) sheets that are folded to fit inside the box – but when opened and unfolded will fit the full 24 inch length of the decks and planks, etc. Since I am using an 11 x 17 format, many pieces had to be chopped in half in order to mount on my sheets. I had to mark some of the pieces with my own probably fuddled notes about how to join them back that I will hopefully be able to decipher later in the build. As well, I had to mark anything on the pieces themselves that were perforated (such as tab slots) that otherwise could not be seen by the scanner. THAT was a lot of work! Next up to get them back in the computer, enlarge them all, and fit all the pieces on new sheets, arrange, etc, and finally print. A few pics attached of the remounted original pieces.

[paperairforce]

The pics - showing some mounted pieces of keel, planks that were glued and flipped (with bits ripped out possibly to be corrected in computer), and the last shows the outline around a keel piece on the original - what you would get if you simply scanned the sheet without removing and mounting.

[aansorge]

The current Wooden Boat magazine (296, January/February 2024) has two articles on long boats. One article is about a traditional build, the other is about a stitch and glue modern build.


The first article includes a discussion on the same museum that Thumb Dog mentioned. This page of the museum's web page includes links to drawings of two ships analyzed by the museum. Working drawings for the Gislinge boat


Further, there is a FaceBook group called Gislinge Boat Open Source Project on the topic, boasting 23,000 followers.

[Thumb Dog]

Hi All,

And hi, paperairforce. You asked where I found the illustration of the longboat that shows the oars stored on their uprights. It looks like a children’s site with simple and limited commentary on Viking longboats. It can be found here:

What is a longship? A longship is a kind of narrow galley that was common from ancient times up to the days of the Vikings.

I’m including a larger version of the original picture that shows more detail.

You’re right that Duluth’s Leif Erikson doesn’t really look like a true Viking ship. At only 42 feet long with a 12 foot, nine inch beam, the boat more closely resembles a double ended life boat of the kind used a century ago. While sailing the North Atlantic in an open boat, I’m sure the four man crew would rather sail in the stout, rugged little ship than in a highly flexible, low freeboard, shallow draft vessel of the Viking age. Here is the site for the Leif Erikson:

Home - Leif Erikson Viking Ship

If memory serves, the dragon’s head often seen on depictions of Viking ships may not have much supporting evidence. Just as the horns on Viking helmets have been shown to be mere artist’s license, archeologists have yet to find a grave ship with a dragon’s head. The spiral tail, sometimes called the serpent’s tail on your model comes from the stern ornament found on the Oseberg ship. But the model’s dragon’s head may just be conjecture.

I’m also including a photograph of a massive, modern, reconstruction of a Viking ship. I don’t know its name or where it operates but judging by the “crew” is serves as a tourist attraction. I’ve never seen a Viking ship with more oars…24 a side, 48 total. Note too that the rudder has been lifted out of the water. The rudder of a Viking ship is always on the right, or starboard side of the boat. The word starboard comes from the Old English steorbord, meaning, “the side on which the ship is steered.” I wouldn’t be surprised if this boat had a powerful electric maneuvering motor stashed somewhere under the aft deck. I certainly wouldn’t trust that crew to pull together to get me home.

Good to see pictures of your progress. Keep them coming.

Score and fold,

Thumb Dog

[Siwi]

Originally Posted by Thumb Dog

If memory serves, the dragon’s head often seen on depictions of Viking ships may not have much supporting evidence. Just as the horns on Viking helmets have been shown to be mere artist’s license, archeologists have yet to find a grave ship with a dragon’s head. The spiral tail, sometimes called the serpent’s tail on your model comes from the stern ornament found on the Oseberg ship. But the model’s dragon’s head may just be conjecture.

Thumb Dog

There is some evidence that some ships carried dragon's heads. Firstly, the name of a type of longship was 'drakkar' or 'dragon ship', and are mentioned in several sagas. In particular the Saga of Harald Hardrada describes his ship as having a carved dragon head on the prow, and other sagas mention they were gilded. “King Harald remained all winter at Nidaros (A.D. 1062) and had a vessel built out upon the strand, and it was a buss. The ship was built of the same size as the Long Serpent, and every part of her was finished with the greatest care. On the stem was a dragon-head, and on the stern a dragon-tail, and the sides of the bows of the ship were gilt. The vessel was of thirty-five rowers benches, and was large for that size, and was remarkably handsome; for the king had everything belonging to the ship’s equipment of the best, both sails and rigging, anchors and cables.” There is a mention in the Anglo-Saxon chronicle of ships with lions, bulls, dolphins, birds and men carved at the prow and/or the mast head. We also have a surviving Icelandic law from around 900-1100 that mentions a requirement for dragon's heads to be dismounted when the ship was at its homestead for religious reasons.
It would seem probable that these ornamentations were only present on ships belonging to the wealthiest, and any prow and stern detailing on the average longship would be far less ornate, if present at all.
Whilst not directly Viking, a lot of the ships depicted in the Bayeaux Tapestry have carved dragon heads as well.

[Vermin_King]

I vaguely remember a television show on a buried longship with the remains of the dragon head. The archeologists were surprised that there was no metal ornamentation to be found on it. Of course Joe the common Viking wouldn't have been buried with a ship, so it had to be someone important. Just not someone important enough to have metal work on the dragon head, I guess