Siatki 1.0.1 & AutoCad8 LT - Page 2

**Ponytail** · #11 03-24-2013, 10:56 AM

Thanks Scott,
In your solution you draw the brick-pattern in ACAD, right.
My idea was to use a texture, where the bricks ar in a stright line, then bend a line of bricks in a curve in the shape of the cones-bottom.
Maybe it would even be possible to bend a texture-pattern and put the cone-outline over it. Then remove all bricks outside...

**Scott K** · #12 03-24-2013, 11:04 AM

Maybe the 3D guys can suggest a way to bend an existing brick texture evenly over the flat pattern. I thought of using model railroad brick paper over the cone, but there would still be fit and alignment problems (unless you want to cut individual courses out, and wrap them around the tower as you go up. Also very tedious!

Scott K.

**mbauer** · #13 03-24-2013, 12:18 PM

To do what you want is going to be a tedious job. I had to do something very simular when doing my Mercury Redstone spacecraft. over 8-hours was spent lining up and then layer correctly the 24 sections with "louvers".

I would suggest creating the cone you need. You will probably have notice that after the cone is drawn that there will be several little lines that make up the lower ARC.

The best way to fix this so that you have only one arc instead of a bunch of straight lines is to:
1) Open the .dxf file in Autocad
2) Choose the ARC command
3) Using the end point quick snap, choose one end of the arc
4) type e (for end point)
5) choose the opposite side of the arc (make sure you choose the end point where it meets the straight line from the center).
6) Type in d (for direction)
7) Move the arc until it goes slightly past the arc lines
8) Click on the arc you just created
9) Choose the middle "vertice" by clicking your mouse on the small box
10) Select the "perpendicular" object snap tool-move your arc close to the original arc lines
11) It should show the object snap "perpendicular" symbol when you get close, let it snap to this
12) Now select your ARC and the two staright lines that make the cone sides
13) copy by doing a Control-c (keys)
14) Control-V keys in the drawing where you want the cone at. (paste)
15) Change the layer of the cone to what ever layer you want them on
16) Now you can use the divide comand to divide the arc into different sections for you bricks
17) I use the defpoints layer to create lines for the division needed, it won't print, but you can still see it to align objects or lines to.

Array is hard to use on cones for proper spacing, that is why I use the divide command on cones. Array works great on circles.

Instead of drawing the bricks around the cone, you can do 1/4 or 1/2 of them and then use the "mirror" tool to finish.

Big secret to making this all work is proper layer use.

On my designs layer names mean:
1) DONE is used for all outlines (DONE-GREY is used for outline using grey to make them harder to see after cutting)
2) DETAIL is used for internal detail lines (brick layer in your case)
3) PAINT is used for Hatch pattern color (PAINT-RED for instance for Red color, etc..)
4) DOTS is used for cut lines
5) DASH is used for fold lines

A final note: You might be able to use the AutoCAD Brick Hatch pattern for your project by rotating it and scaling to the proper look. You will have to experiment with it to see. Once again you might have to 1/4 the pattern and then change the angle to make it look right in the the differnt sections. Sometimes the mirror command will rotate it to make it look right, not always though.

Questions? Ask away here or PM me. More than happy to coach you with autoCAD in 2D designing (LT).

BTW-The water tower looks like a very difficult challenge to do in 2D. The main stucture looks fairly easy, getting the details and the patterns right is going to be hard. The other hard part is going to be the built up bricks around the base. The top water tank that uses the metal panels will be the easiest part to do. It is just a straight sided tube, very easy to draw in AutoCAD.

Mike

**Ponytail** · #14 03-24-2013, 01:38 PM

Thanks for your big explanation, Mike.
In the coming days I will have to read it over and over again and give it a try, no several tries, in ACAD!
I know it is a challenge.... And maybe it will die somehow.

And to Scott,
You are thinking in the same direction as I do: building up de wall with 1 or 2 layers of bricks every time.
A lot of work!

Well thanks all, sofar. I have something to do! ;-)))

**mbauer** · #15 03-24-2013, 01:50 PM

Ponytail,

How much experience with AutoCAD do you have?

Do you know how to use the object snaps?
How to use the Offset command?
Know about layers?
Know what nodes are?
What vertices are?

If not these will all help with your project. If you want you can send your cone to me by email, I'll look at it and see what objects yu are working with.

Private message me if you want.
I'll give you an email to send the drawing to.
Mike

**Ponytail** · #16 03-24-2013, 02:24 PM

Hello Mike,

As I stated in earlier I am a true beginner in ACAD.
Some things are already known, such as the offset, layers, nodes.
The other I'm gonna find out.

Just started a little in-company-course on ACAD to learn using a lasercutter and a CNC-cutter.
See this tower as a spin-off... a side-experiment. Just to see how far I can get now.
When it get's really serious I will not hesitate to ask!

**mbauer** · #17 03-24-2013, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ponytail

Hello Mike,

As I stated in earlier I am a true beginner in ACAD.
Some things are already known, such as the offset, layers, nodes.
The other I'm gonna find out.

Just started a little in-company-course on ACAD to learn using a lasercutter and a CNC-cutter.
See this tower as a spin-off... a side-experiment. Just to see how far I can get now.
When it get's really serious I will not hesitate to ask!

The object snaps are the only way to make sure lines are touching. ACAD can do up to 16-deciamal places for accuracy. in USA units that looks like this .0000000000000000". You can't see any gaps that small.

Using the object snaps allow you to connect lines, or objects. They are easy to use once you understand them.

I've been using ACAD R14 through 2008. Worked as a ACAD drafter for a Civil Engineering firm. More than happy to answer any questions you might have.

Good luck with your training, always wanted to do some CNC, CAM work myself!

Mike

**mbauer** · #18 03-24-2013, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott K

I would draw the cone pattern, then offset the brick lines, starting at the bottom, and working my way up. That will result in even, concentric lines on the cone for each course of biricks. The hard part will be getting the lenght of each brick to be the same. I'd say to use an array to make the lines seperating each brick, but that would taper them toward the top, making each brick shorter as you go up. Maybe some perpendicular offsets on each course? Tedious, but doable.

edit; I just tried the methods I suggested, and there's distortion in each (see pic below). Maybe someone else has an idea how to correct it? I've never needed to try this before, myself, so I'd need more time to fix it.

Scott K.

Hi Scott,

The left side looks great! It won't match up with the right side though when the cone is built, fasted way for you to fix:
Delete the stuff on the right. Select just the "end" lines of your bricks and use the "mirror" tool to mirror them over to the right side. Use you middle line to do the mirror from.

If they don't line up, that means your center line up the middle is not square to the top and bottom of the arcs.

Did you use the array to create the Brick end lines?

Another way to do them would be to use the Divide command on the top and bottom Arcs. Make sure to divide with an even number to make it eaiser to place the lines needed. After dividing, you will need to draw lines from top to bottom node, then trim between you offset lines as needed.

Just do 25% or 50% and use the mirror command to finish the rest once your trimming is done.

Mike

**Scott K** · #19 03-24-2013, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbauer

Hi Scott,

The left side looks great! It won't match up with the right side though when the cone is built, fasted way for you to fix:
Delete the stuff on the right. Select just the "end" lines of your bricks and use the "mirror" tool to mirror them over to the right side. Use you middle line to do the mirror from.

If they don't line up, that means your center line up the middle is not square to the top and bottom of the arcs.

Did you use the array to create the Brick end lines?

Another way to do them would be to use the Divide command on the top and bottom Arcs. Make sure to divide with an even number to make it eaiser to place the lines needed. After dividing, you will need to draw lines from top to bottom node, then trim between you offset lines as needed.

Just do 25% or 50% and use the mirror command to finish the rest once your trimming is done.

Mike

Hi Mike,

I agree, the left does look good, but the problem is that the bricks get smaller as you go toward the top. I did use the array comand to do it, though. I just measured the angle of the arc, then picked an arbitrary number for the number of items, and rotated the number of degrees of the measured arc. Then I just trimmed every other line to make the brick pattern.

The other side was just a test to see if I could use perpendicular offsets. Nope, the distortion is even worse. The trick for any method is to get equal sized bricks all the way up. One way that occurs to me now is to determine how many degrees a scaled brick occupies, then array that for each course, offsetting each by half a brick length. Still tedious, especially if its a small scale with lots of courses, but doable.

I think using divide would still make the bricks get smaller as they went up, wouldn't it? I'll have to experiment with that.

BTW, I've only worked with ACAD as high as 2002 (what they had the last tie I was laid off), and have 2000 myself. Did they ever add features like "repeat" for any commands? That is, having the operation repeat every time you click or hit enter. Or, how about offset both sides? These were a couple of commands I used quite a bit in CADRA, back in '96 to '99. CADRA was loaded with things I always wished for in AutoCad. It even had real time pan and zoom before ACAD did.

Scott K.

**mbauer** · #20 03-24-2013, 04:33 PM

Hi Scott,

The divide command makes the brick ends look normal. Just drew the whole tower without any of the doors, windows etc.

Will create PDF and let you see how the divide command bricks look.

The PDF has the bottom bricks just about even, however, when I did the small tube above the bottom cone, the bricks are the same length, but don't fit the tube as well because the offset was used instead of the divide command.

Any way I'll post a quick version of the Water tower ASAP.

Mike