We need our own copyright attorney.

[markcrowel]

I didn't mean to tick anyone off by bringing this issue up, but it is at least worth discussing on a public forum, because it comes up repeatedly, with never any conclusive answers.

Kugelfang's suggestion makes the most sense: simply look up copyright law per situation.

The issues are not always clearcut, hence the questions and long, inconclusive discussions on various threads.

[Phil]

Yes Mark, I have designed some models (link on signature), I work very hard on them, and I give them away for free.

I don't see any fires burning, nor do I see caustic responses. We are, after all, grown-ups having a discussion, therefore opinions will vary.
No need to end a discussion just because it isn't flowing in your favor.:D

[markcrowel]

Agreed. Let's let it rest. I cleaned up my previous post.

I visited your website, and saw your Porter locomotive. I appreciate designers like yourself who make nice creations like this available to us at no charge. I hope you design more locomotives, and even try your hand at automobiles.

Thank you for providing your website link.

Mark

[Art Deco]

Originally Posted by Phil

The easiest way to avoid trouble is to offer your model for free.

Phil, I'm afraid that's not true at all!

Price has little to do with copyright infringement. That is a very common misperception involving copyright law. If I make and distribute free copies of your published book, you would certainly have grounds for legal action. Real world example: a Zealot poster got involved with Disney over his free model.

Originally Posted by dansls1

(...) the proper forum for such discussions would be a private forum limited to access of designers and distributors who such conversations would affect, and does not make sense (to me) to exist on a public forum like this one.

Actually, to me it seems that Phil's misunderstanding, and the experience of the guy who tangled with Disney over his free model are perfect examples of why these conversations should be happening on public forums, where all hobbyists can benefit from the knowledge. This seems especially true for this hobby, which has a very large overlap between designers and builders, particularly in the area of free models.

[Phil]

I didn't say giving a model of a copyrighted subject for free was legal.
Besides, the original poster of this thread requested that it ends.
I'm all for it.

[dansls1]

Originally Posted by Art Deco

Actually, to me it seems that Phil's misunderstanding, and the experience of the guy who tangled with Disney over his free model are perfect examples of why these conversations should be happening on public forums, where all hobbyists can benefit from the knowledge. This seems especially true for this hobby, which has a very large overlap between designers and builders, particularly in the area of free models.

Again, this has no reason to be public for end users of models. If a designer hosts a model and says I'm free to download it, it's none of my concern whether he's legal in distributing it or not. And as shown by the Disney incident, even if that designer gets in trouble, they will not go after the end users. AND if Phil (for example) wanted to make a model from the latest Disney movie and posted on a public forum asking whether it is legal or not, it is MUCH more likely to raise the attention of somebody who cares at Disney than if the same conversation happened on a closed 'limited access' forum for people who it pertains to.
Again, I'm not saying that these conversations don't need to take place - I'm just saying that a public forum with basically no limit as to who can participate is not the place for them to happen. IMHO, somebody like Chris (who is selling models of all types, distributing free models AND has a forum where he could create a separate 'limited access' forum for designers only to read and post) would benefit from pursuing this suggestion. An open forum just doesn't seem to be the place for it.
My 2 cents, and I'll let it die. And sorry if my opinions offend for some reason, but I'm just trying to suggest a course of action that will be helpful and not harmful to the hobby as a whole, IMHO.

[markcrowel]

OK, let's all step back, take some time out, and get a cup of coffee (or perhaps a nice, cold, grain-based beverage).

All in favor?

[Phil]

Sounds good...I'm buying!:D

[Maltedfalcon]

Originally Posted by whulsey

As an individual you don't have to be concerned with copyrights to do a model. Its only if you offer it for distribution that it becomes a problem.<snip> If you're doing small free distribution it usually is considered fair use and the worse that happens is the copyright owner says stop and you have to.

This is the problem in a nutshell. No,that is not fair use and is totally illegal. Some people don't want to hear that though.

And the "worse" that happens is the FBI arrives takes your computer, arrests you and you get assessed several thousand dollars for each copy you pirated and allowed to be downloaded. After which you have a criminal record.

[THE DC]

I'm all for drinking in collective well fair! [or would that be welfare?]


Oops! Did I start another one up?


The DC