Whether to weather or just get dirty....

[nebeltex]

I have noticed that some designers tend to "over-weather" their creations. There is a difference between "weathering" (e.g. corrosion). Corrosion can be "rust", as well as wear and "corrosion" due to problematic issues of electrolysis (especially for older shipping). Dirt will always seem like dirt, but it is always subjective to the area or place that the model is presented. "Dirt" can come in many shades and colors. From "Mars red" laterite, to greys and even many shades of brown. I have found that it is best to include "weathering" in the design, but leave the "dirty" part up to the detail preferences of the client. chalk pastels, blended and "dry brushed" work much better for the final presentation. there is a difference.

[Bionic Modeler]

I would like to see some more weathering on ship models. They are always designed in pristine condition and they only look that good when they are launced. Especiall the models of older vessels heavily used. A little rust under the portals and between decks would be welcome in my opinion. I'm not talking about a ship in mothballs just regular realistic wear and tear.

[CharlieC]

I think the over weathering ideas have come from plastic modelling to the detriment of the whole modelling community.

I build mostly armour and would note that any crew operating a tank in the condition of many of the plastic creations would be on a charge and likely, in the Red Army, having a one way train trip to Siberia.

There are period images of even WW1 tanks being cleaned after action. In WW1 British tanks were hosed off by Chinese labourers before any maintenance occurred in the workshops. In WW2 the British Army was scrupulous in cleaning and maintaining their tanks after action. The US Army may not have been as keen on cleaning their tanks but they didn't last long in combat (in Patton's 3rd Div the mean life in action for a Sherman was about 6 weeks).

In modern times the Australian Army requires that any tank which has been out on exercise is hosed down when it returns to base.

Bottom line - dirt and dust - certainly. Rust and neglect - not likely.

Regards,

Charlie

[Kevin WS]

Charlie - what you say is really true.

But when resources or time is short, I think that rust and neglect may apply!

This certainly was often (but not always) the case in Rhodesia, Angola, the Sudan, DRC, Sierra Leone and also South African during the wars. Mechanical maintenance took first priority.

Recently I was horrified to see some MBTs in active service in South Africa with huge rust flakes all over - cash strapped?

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Over weathering is a curse though in general, as it is done often with little feel for the scale effect/appearance. In the scales we model even heavy rust etc needs to be very very subtle.

The same applies to scale colours. In scale appearance they should be less bright.

But having said all this I also believe firmly that a model is a creation of the builder and the builder should feel free to embellish it so it has for him or her the right feel. It can be used to convey an impression...... And this does not have to be realistic to be right.

If it satisfies the builder first and foremost, and looks "good" great!

[John Wagenseil]

The tanks at that used to be on display at Aberdeen, Maryland were real life examples of over-weathering.
The WWI tanks in particular were turning into full thickness rust.
The old tanks are no longer at Aberdeen Prooving Grounds.
Reportedly, they have been moved further south where they will be exposed to a warmer, more humid environment which should accelerate the process of natural over-weathering.

[nebeltex]

"likely, in the Red Army, having a one way train trip to Siberia."

i'd have to disagree with that. from what i have read about the Red army of WW2, there was not a great number of mechanically inclined soldiers in their ranks. the only thing more disposable than a soviet tank was a soviet soldier. troops that were "charged" usually ended up in the soviet version of penal brigades. why waste resources sending them to siberia when they could be utilized as first wave (un-armed) bullet catchers or as human mine detectors (sans equipment)?

[whulsey]

One of my favorites out of the model car world is still talked about there if it was a commentary or not was a rusted out CORVETTE. With that I do see some cars and trucks that are very unrealistic, especially with 40's and 50's cars that had a lot of the window trim and such made from stainless steel not chrome-plated metal. Also many cars due to engineering problems with water drainage have very specific areas that tend to get rust out. For ex., late 50's Fords cowl drainage was into the lower ft fender areas that usually plugged quickly, so you see rust holes even in fairly dry climateds at the bottom rear of the fender after a few years.

[nebeltex]

Yep, i guess it depends on the subject. i recently read a book about the history of the "Yugo" and there were instances of bad rust on brand-new vehicles. suffice to say, sometimes less is more, and vice-versa! study, research, and look for the real details that can make a model seem "alive".

[cbg]

Please have a look at this: To quote the author: "This Ju-88 A-4 of unknown unit shows just how severely paintwork could be damaged. . .Modellers who have criticised their fellows for too much weathering might care to reflect on this photograph. (German Bombers over England; Bryan Philpott; Aztex Corp. Tucson; 1981)"

cbg

[CharlieC]

My "Siberia" comment was literary license rather than factual - "political" crimes certainly did get you a trip to Siberia. A transfer to a penal battalion might be viewed as a positive move by many soldiers considering the casualty rates in the Red Army tank units. Possibly the Red Army soldiers were like the WW1 soldiers who thought gas was a kinder weapon compared to anything else since gas didn't maim and disfigure. A quick death compared to being incinerated inside a T-34.

My comments about the WW2 British Army are derived from my late father's stories - he was a tank driver in the 8th Armoured Brigade. Cleaning and maintaining tanks in the winter of 1944-45 was no fun.

I noticed at the recent QMHE that the over weathering meme seems to have spread to artillery models as well. If you talk to any artilleryman you quickly realise that the guns are maintained in nearly pristine condition - they have to be to function reliably. Certainly if you read the manuals for some of the WW1 guns there were daily tasks specified including cleaning and lubricating the gun.

I agree that armies with limited resources or losing badly will operate ratty looking vehicles. I've read comments that German vehicles towards the end of the WW2 looked
quite battered since many of them had been recycled and repaired numerous times.

Regards,

Charlie