Laminating advice?

**david c** · #1 10-23-2007, 06:56 PM

I just got two great locomotive kits - Angraf's Py27 and Modelik's OI 49. They look pretty challenging. I think I'll start with the Angraf but I've never done a locomotive model in card before (several old wood HO scales years ago).

There's a code in the intro for the Modelik; not speaking polish, I'm guessing * means laminate to cardstock (brystol), and then ** = 0.5 mm and so forth.

There are no instructions in the Angraf - aarrrgh. But I think it's the same designer. Same code or not, does anyone know?

And what's the best technique for laminating, to avoid wrinkles and warping??

Thanks, anyone....

Dave

**dansls1** · #2 10-23-2007, 07:25 PM

Somebody recommended 3m type 77 spray glue to me and I've been pretty happy with it.
The Modelik kit I'm building said in the instructions that *=0.5mm and **=0.8mm. I can't read Polish, but that stuck out. If you have calipers, you can measure the cross patterns where the formers are meant to go and see what dimension they are drawn at - hopefully it matches what the laminating thickness should be.

**Gharbad** · #3 10-23-2007, 07:43 PM

I've seen the *'s mean different things in different models.

Dan's idea is a good one. Usually you can see the thicknesses they want in some pieces, especially if there's a slot or some such.

[And I can read Polish if there's a specific sentence]

**Sakrison** · #4 10-23-2007, 07:49 PM

Usually, but not always, there is a key somewhere under "Opus Budowy" (which translates roughly as "Instructions").
"*" on a part means laminate
"Brystol" means cardstock (of the same weight as the kit)
Unfortunately, beyond that point, uniformity goes out the window.
Depending on the kit, * might mean cardstock, 0.5 mm, or 1 mm
One of my kits says *=brystol, **=0.5mm, and ***=1.0 mm
Another kit says *=0.5mm, **=1.0mm, and ***=2.0mm
A recent ('99) GPM kit doesn't say at all, though the answer may be buried in the Polish text.

Check the publisher's Web site. They sometimes put out (fractured) English instructions. If all else fails, get yourself a Polish-English dictionary, look for the phrases "0.5 mm" and "1.0 mm" in the Polish instructions and see what you can puzzle out.

The guesswork provided by Polish instructions is part of the fun.
At the very least, it builds character. Wait 'til you start building Russian paper models. (And you thought Polish was fun!)

For laminating, I use an Avery Glu-Stik and a wallpaper seam roller. I sometimes have to touch up a few edges that delaminate but that's minor when balanced against the low cost and wide availability (a five-minute walk to the drug store) of the Avery glue stick.

Please don't misunderstand me, but I feel compelled to ask: Are you sure you want your first paper model to be a locomotive? That's a very ambitious project. I wouldn't want to see anyone lose interest in paper modeling because their first project was too demanding.

No worries,
--David

**david c** · #5 10-23-2007, 07:52 PM

David - thanks; good advice.

Fear not!! I've made a good dozen architecture builds (schreiber, including Stephansdom) and birdmodels. I do know this is a BIG step up but I'm not a novice. Except for reading polish and czech, now that'll slow me down.

Cheerio

Dave

**dustey** · #6 10-23-2007, 08:03 PM

hey what if you scanned in the instructions posted them then used bable fish would that work? just a thought that popped into my head

**Gil** · #7 10-23-2007, 08:12 PM

Bookmark the following if you're building a Polish model:

Appendix: Glossary of Polish terms encountered in building card models.

http://personal.lig.bellsouth.net/n/...aq/polish.html

+Gil

**dansls1** · #8 10-23-2007, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dustey

hey what if you scanned in the instructions posted them then used bable fish would that work? just a thought that popped into my head

Babelfish (or altavista) doesn't translate Polish. There is www.poltran.com , but it seems to be hit and miss if it works, and a lot of modeling words didn't show up for me.

One thing I'd recommend is search the various forums (zealot, kartonbaue.de, kartonist.de, kartonwork.pl, etc) looking for builds of your kits. Even if the text is in another language, often pictures are worth 1000 words

**Jim Nunn** · #9 10-23-2007, 09:50 PM

Dave,

Yes if you are going to make your own laminated stock use a glue like the 3M super 77 spray, its not cheap but it does go along way if you don’t lay it to thick. Generally 2 sheets of 67 lb (not 90 lb) stock will glue up to be extremely close to .5mm and 4 sheets will make 1 mm. I even use the 3M 77 to laminate the paper formers to the card stock. Press the paper between a couple of books to insure that the stock will be flat. I use a couple of sheets of glass to press the card stock flat.

Now you don’t have to use the 3m product what is important is to use a glue that is solvent based otherwise the stock will end up warped. The last glue I used was made by Duro and was labled “All-Purpose Spray Adhesive” and was recommended by a sales person in a framing shop. The glue was about half the cost of the 3M product. It did not setup as fast as the 3M but otherwise it very comparable to the 3M.

The advantage of laminating your own stock is that the end product is considerably more consistent then purchasing 1 mm stock. When paper is made the surface is denser then the core and on thick card stock the soft center will tend to delaminate. It is somewhat like using multi core plywood over plan chip board.

As for the size coding David (Sakrison) summed it up very nicely.

Jim Nunn

**Padre** · #10 10-23-2007, 10:21 PM

If ya want to build a train try this one http://cp.c-ij.com/japan/papercraft/toy/d51.html
Also I have all the card and paper I needed at Office Max. Some people have used balsa wood for thickness for formers.