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  #11  
Old 08-04-2022, 02:20 PM
Laurence Finston Laurence Finston is offline
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Originally Posted by Dane View Post
The first is mean of words in context of the following sentence: "Stone is slung under a high gear in about the same manner, chain being used instead of rope." (ABOK, p. 43, The Drayman, the last sentence). Is this is about stone lifting with some three legs mechanism and chain?
I would say securing rather than lifting, but I don't know for sure. "Stone" here is used in the same sense as "logs" in the text: Stone is secured for transport using a method similar to the one described for logs in the example, except using chain instead of rope. It's not a nautical knot, it's in the chapter "Occupational Knots" under "The Drayman":

"A drayman was historically the driver of a dray, a low, flat-bed wagon without sides, pulled generally by horses or mules that were used to transport all kinds of goods." Drayman - Wikipedia

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Originally Posted by Dane View Post
The second thing. There is a knot Diamond Hitch. Do it names originate from diamond - is a "stone" or diamond - is a rhombus, geometrical figure? Or both cases used. Then what cases one used, and where is the second used?
It's the shape. The illustration clearly shows the resulting diamond shapes. There's nothing about stones in the description of this knot. In fact, it is described as being for packing, as noted above. I would say in this context, the term "diamond" always refers to the shape. It's true that people sometimes refer to diamonds as "stones" but not in this context. I don't think actual diamonds play any role at all in this book and if they do, then a very minor one. I've never heard of an anchor being referred to as a stone, but I suppose it's possible. In ancient seafaring they used stones as anchors and some people in traditional societies may still do this. However, with the kind of ships that Ashley discusses, they certainly used iron anchors only, except maybe in an emergency.
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  #12  
Old 08-04-2022, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence Finston View Post
I would say securing rather than lifting, but I don't know for sure. "Stone" here is used in the same sense as "logs" in the text: Stone is secured for transport using a method similar to the one described for logs in the example, except using chain instead of rope. It's not a nautical knot, it's in the chapter "Occupational Knots" under "The Drayman":

"A drayman was historically the driver of a dray, a low, flat-bed wagon without sides, pulled generally by horses or mules that were used to transport all kinds of goods." Drayman - Wikipedia



It's the shape. The illustration clearly shows the resulting diamond shapes. There's nothing about stones in the description of this knot. In fact, it is described as being for packing, as noted above. I would say in this context, the term "diamond" always refers to the shape. It's true that people sometimes refer to diamonds as "stones" but not in this context. I don't think actual diamonds play any role at all in this book and if they do, then a very minor one. I've never heard of an anchor being referred to as a stone, but I suppose it's possible. In ancient seafaring they used stones as anchors and some people in traditional societies may still do this. However, with the kind of ships that Ashley discusses, they certainly used iron anchors only, except maybe in an emergency.
A "Stone" is also an old English unit of weight, equivelant to 14 pounds.
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  #13  
Old 08-05-2022, 12:13 PM
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Gents, thank you for your answers.
When I say diamond is a stone, I mean gemstone (native crystalline carbon). Pardon me for this inaccuracy.
In Russian books about rigging, Diamond Knot (Knob, Button) has a name originating from the gemstone. That had been translated for so many years ago.
Picture #416 from ABOK, p.67 shows a rhombus from a rope. It is obvious. But what about #693 (ABOK, p. 121)? What is it? Is it a gemstone or rhombus?
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  #14  
Old 08-05-2022, 01:04 PM
Laurence Finston Laurence Finston is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane View Post
When I say diamond is a stone, I mean gemstone (native crystalline carbon). Pardon me for this inaccuracy.
It's the same in English. There was no inaccuracy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane View Post
In Russian books about rigging, Diamond Knot (Knob, Button) has a name originating from the gemstone. That had been translated for so many years ago.
Picture #416 from ABOK, p.67 shows a rhombus from a rope. It is obvious. But what about #693 (ABOK, p. 121)? What is it? Is it a gemstone or rhombus?
Thank you.
The shape is named for the gemstone and I think the knot is named for the shape. I can't think of any connection of any knot to the gemstone. However, I don't think anything like this can ever be proven.
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  #15  
Old 09-07-2022, 07:03 AM
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Hello to all.
I ask you for help again. I would like to clarify meaning of two phrases - "in the bight" and "on the bight" which I faced in ABOK.
As I understood, the first phrase "in the bight" mean about the middle of a rope or somewhere between ends of rope.
The second phrase "on the bight" mean that a knot made from bights.
Am I right?
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  #16  
Old 09-07-2022, 07:38 AM
Laurence Finston Laurence Finston is offline
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A "bight" is a bend or curve in a rope or line. So if you're tying a bowline knot, the bight is the loop. That's the knot with the mnemonic device where you're supposed to think of the working end of the line as a rabbit that goes "up the hole, around the tree, back down the hole". That's one I still remember how to tie.
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  #17  
Old 09-08-2022, 11:25 AM
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Laurence Finston, thank you for your answer. The case is become complicated due to the word "bight" has several meanings. These are a bend, a curve, a loop, and a sag as a curve between fixed ends of rope. I just try to understand what present are and where. Where it is needed to use "in the bight" and where - "on the bight" and what is mean in generally.
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  #18  
Old 09-08-2022, 12:00 PM
Laurence Finston Laurence Finston is offline
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I'm not sure there is a difference between "in the bight" and "on the bight", but it should be clear what's meant from the context and the illustration. Are you referring to particular knots?
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  #19  
Old 09-09-2022, 07:47 AM
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I faced with these meanings ("in the bigh" and "with the bight") in ABOK on page 190, the first line from above. Another example is #1057, where it says about this (about "on the bight") "the title of knot". There are number of other examples in ABOK (for example, beginning of Chapter 12).
From this, I concluded that these are special concepts that describe the properties of knots.
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  #20  
Old 09-09-2022, 08:21 AM
Laurence Finston Laurence Finston is offline
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Now I get it: "With a bight" means instead of tying the knot with the end of the rope, i.e., with a single strand, you make a loop, i.e., a bight, and tie with it as if it were the end. So you use two strands for tying instead of one.

"In the bight" means you pass the end of the rope through a loop. If you've doubled the rope, as in the previous paragraph, that's "in the bight, with a bight".

"On the bight" means the knot is at the edge of a loop, like with the various bowlines. That is, you're not tying a knot in the middle of the rope like an overhand knot, you're making a loop and securing it with a knot at the end where the strands of the loop come together.

If anything's unclear, please let me know.
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