A4 and US Letter PDF Compatibility?

[codex34]

Wouldn't it be better to have less top and left margin?
Are there any printers left that actually need a margin at all?

Now your talking about .pdf, how many people choose to print at 'actual' size rather than just click print (or even know that you can), you can assume all you want to that everyone will print actual size, and you can even attempt to specifically tell them to, but they inevitably never do.
I've always seen .pdf as a vector format, it doesn't matter what the print scale is, it comes out good quality anyway, so to use raster images in .pdf they have to have a larger dpi number to produce the same quality as vector.
When you get below 300 dpi with raster images you will get quality issues with .pdf if they aren't printed at 'actual' size, it doesn't mater what virtual size you try to use.

My solution is to always supply both the images and .pdf files, I do this for 2 reasons, 1) makes recolours easier and people can 'adjust' the sheets if parts get cropped during print, 2) if you can print it, you can scan it, a .pdf will NOT 'secure' your images from being extracted, it's supposed to just make printing easier, so why not release the images with the .pdf.

Universal printable areas and margins are for the raster images, if your using .pdf then increase the dpi
If you don't want people to extract and recolour your work, then don't release it, .pdfs aren't a form of security from theft, I've got a scanner.

[ghshinn]

Lex, I'm not careful about scales either. I often tell people that the scale is approximately x, and they seem satisfied with that.

Garland

[papersmithforge]

I refer to the following article on minimum printable margins from DELL tech support regarding HP printers (I own an HP printer, thus my conclusions). The largest margin they denote there is 0.46 in. or 3.2 mm. What Leif determined as 3.5 mm and I rounded to 0.5 in. I simply took the route of not attempting to define each margin to a minimal amount. I took the largest margin and applied it throughout the whole page.

@mbauer: That is how I came up with my 7.25 number (rounded down)

@codex34: I don't see how any of this relates to security. I'm not particularly concerned with that. Moreso, I just don't want to force someone to have to scale their print if they want it to be as close to ideal as possible (i.e. the original), and also to facilitate the people who purchase/download one of my models that may not find themselves with Letter paper on hand. It's not a real bother to me to take them into consideration, and if I can't fit something onto one page the obvious solution is to add another.

I'm including a diagram for the sake of clarity. I hope it helps you Leif, your explanation helped me see that what I thought is obviously logical and can make sense to someone else. This diagram shows the sizes in both SI and Imperial of A4, Letter, and L4 (which I now comically refer to as Leif 4) along with the printable area that I computed using 1/2 inch margins. I rounded it down to 7.25 x 10 inches, for the sake of using 1/4 inch measurements, I don't really like 7.268 as a number.

[GreMir]

Just for the record - 0.46in actually is 11.69mm...

Every printer has different margins and grab paper a little bit differently so customizing your page for one printer, might create a problem for another, but if you fit your model within 7.25" x 10" box and center it on the page, you will be able to print it both on A4 and Letter size without cropping and printer margins will not matter.

[papersmithforge]

Thank you for the catch Gremir, I inadvertently transposed numbers. What I meant to say is that Leif used the smallest margin of 3.2 mm and I used the largest margin of 0.46 in. both of us rounding up to the nearest half measurement of 3.5 mm and 0.5 in. I would say that on my printer if any of your parts fell towards the bottom border Leif I would likely be cutting off a significant portion of them (without scaling). This was my reason for choosing 0.5 as the margin on an L4 sheet. A brief internet search did not yield anyone who had margins in excess of 0.5 inches. From a printer manufacturing point of view that would tend to make sense as a lot of writing formats (collegiate standards such as MLA and others) rarely define anything be printed outside of a 1/2 inch margin, so you would likely build your printer to that tolerance.

[Rubenandres77]

Originally Posted by papersmithforge

...
I'm including a diagram for the sake of clarity. I hope it helps you Leif, your explanation helped me see that what I thought is obviously logical and can make sense to someone else. This diagram shows the sizes in both SI and Imperial of A4, Letter, and L4 (which I now comically refer to as Leif 4) along with the printable area that I computed using 1/2 inch margins. I rounded it down to 7.25 x 10 inches, for the sake of using 1/4 inch measurements, I don't really like 7.268 as a number.

If only by a couple of milimeters it is almost the same solution I adopted in the Ford Tri-motor

I believe that's the most practical solution for both designers and modelists without going into much trouble in any end.

All that's needed is a simple note:
"Dear modelist, this kit can be printed on both A4 and Letter sizes.
Just send the page at 100% (no scale/no fit to page) and don't worry: nothing will be cropped and it will be at the proper scale"


Hopefully, it will work for everbody.

[Leif Ohlsson]

Papersmithforge (what an awkward handle... hereafter I'll use "PSF" - got a name or something?); Ruben:

I concur and learn. This has been a good and productive exchange. The outcome of this thread ought to go somewhere more permanent. PSF or Ruben, how about you do a short article in the article section, reviewing and refering to this thread, and reiterating the basic figures arrived at? Setting the standard, so to speak?

Leif

[dell_zantoz]

Originally Posted by John Wagenseil

If you live in US print A4 full size on sheets of legal paper or card stock which is 8 1/2 by 14.

I agree with him on this one. Just print it on legal size format and they should fit right inside. You do not have to worry about margins and stuff because the width is wide enough and the lenght is long enough for the A4 size print. If you are out of letter size card stock, legal size would do just fine too. Just my two cents.

[Rubenandres77]

Originally Posted by Leif Ohlsson

Papersmithforge (what an awkward handle... hereafter I'll use "PSF" - got a name or something?); Ruben:

I concur and learn. This has been a good and productive exchange. The outcome of this thread ought to go somewhere more permanent. PSF or Ruben, how about you do a short article in the article section, reviewing and refering to this thread, and reiterating the basic figures arrived at? Setting the standard, so to speak?

Leif

Leif, I doubt I could write something coherent in the near future about the subject

[Leif Ohlsson]

I just wish to report that I have remade all 21 pages of a little re-scaling & recolouring project I aim to finish soon. Pages now conform to a virtual paper size of "L4" (thanks for the alternative title, PSF, but it's a little bit longish, isn't it...?), i.e. 210 x 279mm, and a printable area of 11mm less, all around, i.e. 188 x 257mm.

Since I'm not hampered by ungainly fractions of inches, I can allow myself the maximum area possible, given the restraints we have discussed.

This will, from now on, be my standard size. Many thanks for the most advanced discussion of this theme so far.

Did I mention that I had to divide up a very complicated part in two halves, just because of this, and add another page? Oh, well. Good for one's karma, I guess.

Leif

PSF, how about you picking up the torch and write your findings up in the article section? Your figures, and the very explanatory image they refer to, ought to be preserved at an easily accessible spot.